Zompist Bboard Again

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 24, 2025 5:54 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Dec 24, 2025 4:46 pm Unrelated, but very much random, question: Why are harpsichords?

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I have to strongly disagree. Some of my very favourite pieces are harpsichord compositions: e.g. Bach’s Harpsichord Concerto in D Minor, the very old English composition My Lady Carey’s Dompe, or any of Scarlatti’s works, e.g. his Sonata in F Minor.

Perhaps you may be picking up on the fact that harpsichords are very limited in their dynamics (loud/soft variations), as well as in the length their notes can be sustained.

This "problem" was already noticed in the early 18th century, and led to the development of the piano (originally called the pianoforte or fortepiano with reference to its dynamic range). But the harpsichord is also not a particularly loud instrument, which is a problem when performing with an orchestra in a large concert hall.

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 24, 2025 5:54 pm But they’re hardly unique in that: synthesisers and electric guitars have essentially the same issues (and in fact Baroque music is regularly compared to heavy metal, too).

Synthesizers and electric guitars have considerable dynamic ranges (though early synthesizers did not have velocity-sensitive keyboards so you had to use the volume knob in order to change dynamics); synthesizers also can do very long sustained sounds - they are on a par with organs in this regard.

As for the comparison between Baroque music and metal (or rock in general), that's mainly about how the basso continuo resembles the bass line and chord symbols in rock music.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 25, 2025 9:46 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 24, 2025 5:54 pm But they’re hardly unique in that: synthesisers and electric guitars have essentially the same issues (and in fact Baroque music is regularly compared to heavy metal, too).

Synthesizers and electric guitars have considerable dynamic ranges (though early synthesizers did not have velocity-sensitive keyboards so you had to use the volume knob in order to change dynamics); synthesizers also can do very long sustained sounds - they are on a par with organs in this regard.

Correct; in many ways organs are a closer comparison. That said, a lot of synthesisers remain velocity-insensitive, not all synthesised sounds have sustain, and most synthesiser keyboards feel much closer to those of a harpsichord than of a piano.

As for the comparison between Baroque music and metal (or rock in general), that's mainly about how the basso continuo resembles the bass line and chord symbols in rock music.

I don’t listen to heavy metal so am not an expert, but from what I recall, there are a lot of similarities in the melodic lines too.

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 25, 2025 10:09 amI don’t listen to heavy metal so am not an expert, but from what I recall, there are a lot of similarities in the melodic lines too.

ISTR that at least one of the guitarists for DragonForce was a classically-trained musician.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Thu Dec 25, 2025 11:03 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 25, 2025 10:09 amI don’t listen to heavy metal so am not an expert, but from what I recall, there are a lot of similarities in the melodic lines too.

ISTR that at least one of the guitarists for DragonForce was a classically-trained musician.

System of a Down are also classically trained musicians.

https://youtu.be/MKLGmZoY61c?si=H3Ex6elwzqdBJH7O

Trunic Review

Does anyone else think that my main online bookshop has an interesting way of sending customers seasonal greetings?
(For those of you who don't know German or can't look at graphics, it's a screenshot showing the message "Thalia wishes Merry Christmas" next to the front cover of a book with the title "Bitter Hatred".)

Lērisama, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say that Christmas is several holidays. Do you mean that you distinguish between "Christmas as celebrated by people who see it as the birthday of their Lord and Saviour" and "Christmas as celebrated by people who celebrate it because many generations of their ancestors did" and "Christmas as celebrated by people who are somewhere in between"?

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Thu Dec 25, 2025 9:46 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 24, 2025 5:54 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Dec 24, 2025 4:46 pm Unrelated, but very much random, question: Why are harpsichords?

I have to strongly disagree. Some of my very favourite pieces are harpsichord compositions: e.g. Bach’s Harpsichord Concerto in D Minor, the very old English composition My Lady Carey’s Dompe, or any of Scarlatti’s works, e.g. his Sonata in F Minor.

Perhaps you may be picking up on the fact that harpsichords are very limited in their dynamics (loud/soft variations), as well as in the length their notes can be sustained.

This "problem" was already noticed in the early 18th century, and led to the development of the piano (originally called the pianoforte or fortepiano with reference to its dynamic range). But the harpsichord is also not a particularly loud instrument, which is a problem when performing with an orchestra in a large concert hall.

An instrument should be used for what it's good at. A lot of people have felt that J.S. Bach has a lot of artistic merit, and his music works perfectly well on the harpsichord. You can do pathetic and dramatic music with great dynamic range on the piano, and that's just what developed when the piano took over. Baroque music fit the rationalistic spirit of the time, and was well suited to amateur performance at home.

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 24, 2025 5:54 pmI have to strongly disagree. Some of my very favourite pieces are harpsichord compositions: e.g. Bach’s Harpsichord Concerto in D Minor, the very old English composition My Lady Carey’s Dompe, or any of Scarlatti’s works, e.g. his Sonata in F Minor.

Seconded. Obviously tastes differ and it makes sense that centuries of musical development have greatly shifted expectations.

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Dec 25, 2025 12:51 pm Lērisama, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say that Christmas is several holidays. Do you mean that you distinguish between "Christmas as celebrated by people who see it as the birthday of their Lord and Saviour" and "Christmas as celebrated by people who celebrate it because many generations of their ancestors did" and "Christmas as celebrated by people who are somewhere in between"?

No, that was a bad way of saying it. In BreEng, holidays (plural only), is a decent translation of Ferien². It's the time you have off work or school around a festive occasion¹, so if you're a small child and forming your opinion about such greetings and someone wishes you happy holidays on the last day of term, you think they mean the school holidays, rather than multiple religiously festive occasions³ occurring around the same time. Until now, I always took it as ambiguous between Christmas, and the broader “Christmas as time off” time.

¹ Although even a few days of annual leave, or a half-term would be holidays, so a festive occasion isn't mandatory
² And holiday (normally pluralisable) is equivalent to the other sense of Ferien, which Americans would call a vacation
³ Quite a rare meaning of holiday over here, especially without qualification

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frohebitterkeit

You can do that‽ And a quick question, why -e on frohe but not bitter?

zompist wrote: ↑Thu Dec 25, 2025 1:16 pm An instrument should be used for what it's good at. A lot of people have felt that J.S. Bach has a lot of artistic merit, and his music works perfectly well on the harpsichord. You can do pathetic and dramatic music with great dynamic range on the piano, and that's just what developed when the piano took over. Baroque music fit the rationalistic spirit of the time, and was well suited to amateur performance at home.

There is, of course, a correlation between instrument types and the music that is played on them. The piano was developed because musicians wanted more dynamic range. And guess why there are no hurdy-gurdys and bagpipes in the modern orchestra: because these instruments have drones, and drones nail the player down on a single key. You can't play in F major if your instrument drones in G major. What remained of 16th-century drones in the 17th century were pedal points - long sustained notes played on organ pedals.

Lērisama wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 3:24 am
No, that was a bad way of saying it. In BreEng, holidays (plural only), is a decent translation of Ferien². It's the time you have off work or school around a festive occasion¹, so if you're a small child and forming your opinion about such greetings and someone wishes you happy holidays on the last day of term, you think they mean the school holidays, rather than multiple religiously festive occasions³ occurring around the same time. Until now, I always took it as ambiguous between Christmas, and the broader “Christmas as time off” time.

¹ Although even a few days of annual leave, or a half-term would be holidays, so a festive occasion isn't mandatory
² And holiday (normally pluralisable) is equivalent to the other sense of Ferien, which Americans would call a vacation
³ Quite a rare meaning of holiday over here, especially without qualification

Ah, thank you for clearing that up!

frohebitterkeit

You can do that‽ And a quick question, why -e on frohe but not bitter?

No, I don't think you really can. Or, if you could do it as one word, you would probably have to write it as "Frohbitterkeit", without the first "e". But I meant it as two words, which are written as one word because I couldn't be bothered to insert a hyphen or an underline or a blank space into the file name. And "Frohe Bitterkeit" has to start with "frohe" instead of "froh" because any word ending in "-keit" is grammatically feminine (unless I've overlooked some exception), so the adjective "froh" has to take the feminine form "frohe".

I always interpreted "Happy Holidays" as referring to Christmas, Christmas Eve, the days of Hanukkah, New Year's, and New Year's Eve. Even though Hanukkah is over, if you are Jewish, there are still New Year's and New Year's Eve... but I've read that many Jews regard them as 'Christian' holidays despite being, strictly speaking, secular. I never interpreted them with the typical BrE meaning of "holiday" in mind myself, and even with that in mind I'd assume the phrase is a survival of a time in which "holiday" had a closer meaning to its meaning in NAE.

I say "happy holidays" to not assume somebody celebrates Christmas, but i honestly consider it more of a labor/ winter break thing than some religious holiday. I also don't think the other holidays this season besides Kwanzaa are too festive anyway. Hanukka is actually one of the least important holidays in Judaism, while Ramadan is very much not a party time.There is New Year's, but it feels more like time's birthday than an actual holiday, if that makes sense.

Starbeam wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 9:25 am I say "happy holidays" to not assume somebody celebrates Christmas, but i honestly consider it more of a labor/ winter break thing than some religious holiday. I also don't think the other holidays this season besides Kwanzaa are too festive anyway. Hanukka is actually one of the least important holidays in Judaism, while Ramadan is very much not a party time.There is New Year's, but it feels more like time's birthday than an actual holiday, if that makes sense.

Of course, Hanukkah is only significant because of Christmas ─ but if one excludes Hanukkah "Happy Holidays" would still refer to both Christmas and New Year's in one phrase.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 10:04 am

Starbeam wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 9:25 am I say "happy holidays" to not assume somebody celebrates Christmas, but i honestly consider it more of a labor/ winter break thing than some religious holiday. I also don't think the other holidays this season besides Kwanzaa are too festive anyway. Hanukka is actually one of the least important holidays in Judaism, while Ramadan is very much not a party time.There is New Year's, but it feels more like time's birthday than an actual holiday, if that makes sense.

Of course, Hanukkah is only significant because of Christmas ─ but if one excludes Hanukkah "Happy Holidays" would still refer to both Christmas and New Year's in one phrase.

I think that goes a bit too far. Chanukah has always existed as a celebration in its own right.

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 10:08 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 10:04 am

Starbeam wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 9:25 am I say "happy holidays" to not assume somebody celebrates Christmas, but i honestly consider it more of a labor/ winter break thing than some religious holiday. I also don't think the other holidays this season besides Kwanzaa are too festive anyway. Hanukka is actually one of the least important holidays in Judaism, while Ramadan is very much not a party time.There is New Year's, but it feels more like time's birthday than an actual holiday, if that makes sense.

Of course, Hanukkah is only significant because of Christmas ─ but if one excludes Hanukkah "Happy Holidays" would still refer to both Christmas and New Year's in one phrase.

I think that goes a bit too far. Chanukah has always existed as a celebration in its own right.

Point taken; I just meant that the modern significance of Hanukkah is in a large part due to its proximity to Christmas, when the really important Jewish holidays are days like Yom Kippur and Passover.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 10:17 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 10:08 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 10:04 am

Of course, Hanukkah is only significant because of Christmas ─ but if one excludes Hanukkah "Happy Holidays" would still refer to both Christmas and New Year's in one phrase.

I think that goes a bit too far. Chanukah has always existed as a celebration in its own right.

Point taken; I just meant that the modern significance of Hanukkah is in a large part due to its proximity to Christmas, when the really important Jewish holidays are days like Yom Kippur and Passover.

Yes, correct.

An interesting break in my debt problem: I got a text message from Element Mediation addressed to someone else who apparently shared my phone number at one point. I frequently get calls addressed to them which all suggest that he's frequently in legal trouble so it makes sense he have racked up significant debt. So it was probably just a wrong number all along.

Interestingly this individual lives somewhere in Colorado and seems involved in libertarian politics and the prepper store I mentioned is in Utah one state over. It's possible that he shopped there and they linked his old phone number with my email address.

Starbeam wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 9:25 am while Ramadan is very much not a party time.

Err, what? Ramadan is usually not around the time of late December; sometimes it is, but only sometimes. And from what I've heard, after sunset it does have a party aspect. And immediately after it, there is apparently a quite big party.

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 10:53 am

Starbeam wrote: ↑Fri Dec 26, 2025 9:25 am while Ramadan is very much not a party time.

Err, what? Ramadan is usually not around the time of late December; sometimes it is, but only sometimes. And from what I've heard, after sunset it does have a party aspect. And immediately after it, there is apparently a quite big party.

I would have written the same thing here.