Zompist Bboard Again

malloc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 29, 2026 11:42 am I realize this forum is trying to avoid the AI topic, but I must say that the latest entry in Mark's blog really chills me to the bones. Between its enthusiastic embrace of far right politics and its aggressive war on human art and literature, the tech industry has really soured on me. Unfortunately computers have colonized so much of the world that cutting them out is hardly practical. Everything from paying my bills to keeping up with the news would become way harder.

Thankfully, you don't have to get rid of computers. It's possible to avoid Big Tech to a large extent; there are good free software alternatives for just about anything.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 3:44 am Thankfully, you don't have to get rid of computers. It's possible to avoid Big Tech to a large extent; there are good free software alternatives for just about anything.

That can partly solve the problem for yourself, but it doesn't really do much about Big Tech's impact on the world.

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 3:55 am

Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 3:44 am Thankfully, you don't have to get rid of computers. It's possible to avoid Big Tech to a large extent; there are good free software alternatives for just about anything.

That can partly solve the problem for yourself, but it doesn't really do much about Big Tech's impact on the world.

You're right of course. But I think it's better to focus on matters that are in our control -- and if malloc doesn't want to do business with Big Tech (a commendable ethical concern), there are ways to do so.

Unrelated: The main bathroom in our apartment has a somewhat weird shower curtain. Neither my flatmate nor me bought it. It was already there when we moved in, and we never saw a need to replace it.

What's weird about the shower curtain is that it's full of written instructions telling people to do the very basic, fundamental things that people in the modern world usually do in bathrooms. Not instructions on how to do those things, but just reminders to do them. Stuff like "Take a shower" or "Brush you teeth". Also, the instructions are in English, not German.

Now, at first, I thought that the curtain had been designed by people with a weird idea of humor. Who needs reminders to do bathroom things when they're in a bathroom? But then I thought, "Could this have been meant for people with dementia?" That is, people at a stage of dementia where they can still mostly take care of themselves, but might forget ordinary everyday things most people wouldn't forget, if they're not reminded of them?

So my question is, do you think this shower curtain was intentionally designed for people with dementia?

No, I think the designer just wasn't terribly inspired. In much the same vein I used to have kitchen-themed table mats.

I don't think shower curtains are great for elderly people -- what if they fall, take the curtain down and get all wrapped in it?

I personally don't think that shower curtain was created for people with dementia myself.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 3:44 amThankfully, you don't have to get rid of computers. It's possible to avoid Big Tech to a large extent; there are good free software alternatives for just about anything.

Maybe, although even the free software crowd is embracing AI more and more. Mozilla for instance has recently gone all-in on AI.

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Jan 29, 2026 11:46 amIsn’t most of zompist’s post about why this won’t happen?

Sure but by his own admission, ChatGPT has gotten quite good at writing. It would only take another breakthrough or two before even skeptics like Mark find it impossible to distinguish from professional writers.

while I feel that the shower curtain was almost certainly designed by someone with a odd and/or childish sense of humor, it's entirely possible that it was installed for the purpose of reminding people of what to do while in the restroom. even if not specifically for a dementia patient, I could also see a young couple with toddlers installing such a thing, as young children also usually need reminders. (my aunt and uncle have a similar setup at their house, as they have a 3- and 6-year-old.)

/ˌnɐ.ˈɾɛn.dɚ.ˌduːd/ wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 9:43 am while I feel that the shower curtain was almost certainly designed by someone with a odd and/or childish sense of humor, it's entirely possible that it was installed for the purpose of reminding people of what to do while in the restroom. even if not specifically for a dementia patient, I could also see a young couple with toddlers installing such a thing, as young children also usually need reminders. (my aunt and uncle have a similar setup at their house, as they have a 3- and 6-year-old.)

Neurodiverse people (like myself) could also benefit from the reminders.

Thank you, interesting feedback. Not sure what I think now.

*********

Alcoholic drinks question: Does anyone else have the impression that actual rum rarely ever tastes as good as whatever substance they're using to flavor rum-flavored sweets?

malloc wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 9:35 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Jan 29, 2026 11:46 amIsn’t most of zompist’s post about why this won’t happen?

Sure but by his own admission, ChatGPT has gotten quite good at writing. It would only take another breakthrough or two before even skeptics like Mark find it impossible to distinguish from professional writers.

The key thing, though, is that LLM's are simply not good at being creative, as they are effectively limited to the kinds of things in their training sets, and fail miserably when one tries to make them do things outside of that.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 11:59 am

malloc wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 9:35 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Jan 29, 2026 11:46 amIsn’t most of zompist’s post about why this won’t happen?

Sure but by his own admission, ChatGPT has gotten quite good at writing. It would only take another breakthrough or two before even skeptics like Mark find it impossible to distinguish from professional writers.

The key thing, though, is that LLM's are simply not good at being creative, as they are effectively limited to the kinds of things in their training sets, and fail miserably when one tries to make them do things outside of that.

A useful, if slightly stretched, analogy: LLMs will only ever work in monochrome, and most people like a bit of colour now and then.

alice wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 2:57 pmA useful, if slightly stretched, analogy: LLMs will only ever work in monochrome, and most people like a bit of colour now and then.

The problem is that they eventually invented color photography. What happens when something analogous happens for generative AI?

Bret Devereaux has posted an interesting brief introduction to the Late Bronze Age Collapse: https://acoup.blog/2026/01/30/collectio ... roduction/

I'm mentioning that here because of three tongue-in-cheek comments in the comments section:

How can you leave out the most important part of the Bronze Age collapse: merchants who sell you poor copper and are rude to your servant!

Ea-Nasir had been dead for several centuries by this time.

If he’d sold better copper maybe the LBAC wouldn’t have happened.

I don't know what exactly these three comments are referencing, but I suspect that there might be people on the ZBB who do. So, what are they talking about? And did whatever they're talking about perhaps help inspire zompist's story The Multipliers? https://zompist.com/multipliers.html

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Jan 31, 2026 6:59 am I don't know what exactly these three comments are referencing, but I suspect that there might be people on the ZBB who do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint ... E1%B9%A3ir

bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 31, 2026 7:07 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Jan 31, 2026 6:59 am I don't know what exactly these three comments are referencing, but I suspect that there might be people on the ZBB who do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint ... E1%B9%A3ir

Thank you!

bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 31, 2026 7:07 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Jan 31, 2026 6:59 am I don't know what exactly these three comments are referencing, but I suspect that there might be people on the ZBB who do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint ... E1%B9%A3ir

Probably my favorite internet meme; poor Ea-nasir. You sell one batch of copper, that one time...

malloc wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 8:12 pm

alice wrote: ↑Fri Jan 30, 2026 2:57 pmA useful, if slightly stretched, analogy: LLMs will only ever work in monochrome, and most people like a bit of colour now and then.

The problem is that they eventually invented color photography. What happens when something analogous happens for generative AI?

It's an interesting philosophical question. You'd have to think at how humans create? I think you need an ability to feel emotion and enough insight into it to evoke it in others, a will of your own, a consciousness, and not to get all Freudian on you, but most certainly a subconscious.
So we wouldn't be dealing with a machine at all, but a sentient being. I don't think we're anywhere close to sentient AI. But, anyway, I have no idea what happens next -- all expectations go out the window. What are the ethical implications of forcing a sentient being to write stories for you?

But the question is also interesting because it gets into those propositions you can't formally settle one way or the other; maybe you could have machine creation without anything like a human mind. The philosophical implications are staggering.

But maybe I'm too ambitious. AI won't write the Great American Novel, but maybe it can do a bad episode of CSI. That would be pretty bad news for beginners and aspiring screenwriters, or the less talented.
I think those capable of it would move on the creating whole new genres, or new unexpected twists to established ones.

It's a possible scenario, but I'm not completely sold on it. I think that, boring as those may be, there's a lot more creativity involved in a bad CSI episode than we'd expect.

https://youtube.com/live/gNSag7oJ1Gw

I'll be livestreaming tonight at 8pm EST.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Sat Jan 31, 2026 9:07 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 31, 2026 7:07 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Sat Jan 31, 2026 6:59 am I don't know what exactly these three comments are referencing, but I suspect that there might be people on the ZBB who do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint ... E1%B9%A3ir

Probably my favorite internet meme; poor Ea-nasir. You sell one batch of copper, that one time...

The problem is it wasn't a one time thing. The guy seemed to collect complaint tablets the way kids in the 2000s collected pokemon cards. As in, he had a pile of them in a specific corner of his shop, not even damaged like he threw them away there. I'm surprised people did business with him for so long to get that many complaints, in that time period.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Sat Jan 31, 2026 9:07 amIt's an interesting philosophical question. You'd have to think at how humans create? I think you need an ability to feel emotion and enough insight into it to evoke it in others, a will of your own, a consciousness, and not to get all Freudian on you, but most certainly a subconscious.

It's not merely an interesting philosophical question but a serious challenge to humanity and its place in the world. Realistically what happens to human artists and writers when machines can replicate their abilities at a fraction of the cost? The vast majority of them lose their jobs and humanity finds itself forced out of art and literature. Meanwhile there are no better jobs waiting for all those displaced artists because automation has already eliminated work in so many other fields.