Re: Ajjamah Scratchpad: Quipus of the Qumor
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:02 am
Very nice. I'm happy to see quipus used in conworlding
Glad you liked it! More Mesoamerican than Pratchettian though, at least this time...
Perhaps it has quite a bit of nitrosyl cyanide in it?
Oh, there’s more than enough chlorine around to make up an atmosphere. It’s just that on Earth, most of it is bound up in the form of table salt and similar minerals, so we don’t notice it. Perhaps a bigger concern would be the biochemistry of a chlorine-breathing creature (necessary to keep the chlorine around in the atmosphere), but I’m sure there’s some way to get around that.Pedant wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:37 amHonestly I think it was meant to be “cream”. (Colours still get me confused sometimes.) But as I’ve made my bed I’m going to lie in it: the atmosphere’s primary components are carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and (surprisingly) oxygen, largely bound in the form of nitrous and nitric oxides. While still uninhabitable (and with a very thick cloud layer), the sky appears a dusty brown from up close, closer to green when viewed from Ajjamah.
(Thought about nitrosyl cyanide, but how would the temperatures work? Chlorine gas would be grand, but there’s too little of it around to make much of an impact and I don’t want there to be too many exceptions in my system.)
Now that would be easy enough to counter under Earth-like conditions--I can just use a variation of Steven L. Gillett’s model to create a sort of extremophile bacterium that uses chlorine gas as a defence mechanism--but the trick is going to be whether they can survive the temperatures at the surface level or even in layers of the atmosphere that actually has sufficient oxygen to breathe. On the other hand, if I use Asimov’s suggestion and have clumps of sulphur-living fluorocarbon-based microorganisms (or perhaps fluorosilicones?) but don’t let them get too complex, perhaps that could create enough biomass to keep the chlorine gas at a stable level...bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:41 pm Oh, there’s more than enough chlorine around to make up an atmosphere. It’s just that on Earth, most of it is bound up in the form of table salt and similar minerals, so we don’t notice it. Perhaps a bigger concern would be the biochemistry of a chlorine-breathing creature (necessary to keep the chlorine around in the atmosphere), but I’m sure there’s some way to get around that.
As for nitrosyl cyanide, I’m fairly sure the temperatures would work fine. Perhaps surprisingly, I can’t find an experimental or theoretical IR spectrum of nitrosyl cyanide, but based on its structure it looks like it would absorb in the thermal energy range hence acting as a greenhouse gas.
(I did try to calculate the spectrum myself, but gave up after the program took half an hour to give me a compilation error. Ah, where would we be without technology?)
Can’t comment on this; biochemistry is a bit too far out of my comfort zone. (I don’t even know what a fluorocarbon-based microorganism would look like, let alone how its chemistry would work!)Pedant wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:13 amNow that would be easy enough to counter under Earth-like conditions--I can just use a variation of Steven L. Gillett’s model to create a sort of extremophile bacterium that uses chlorine gas as a defence mechanism--but the trick is going to be whether they can survive the temperatures at the surface level or even in layers of the atmosphere that actually has sufficient oxygen to breathe. On the other hand, if I use Asimov’s suggestion and have clumps of sulphur-living fluorocarbon-based microorganisms (or perhaps fluorosilicones?) but don’t let them get too complex, perhaps that could create enough biomass to keep the chlorine gas at a stable level...bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:41 pm Oh, there’s more than enough chlorine around to make up an atmosphere. It’s just that on Earth, most of it is bound up in the form of table salt and similar minerals, so we don’t notice it. Perhaps a bigger concern would be the biochemistry of a chlorine-breathing creature (necessary to keep the chlorine around in the atmosphere), but I’m sure there’s some way to get around that.
As for nitrosyl cyanide, I’m fairly sure the temperatures would work fine. Perhaps surprisingly, I can’t find an experimental or theoretical IR spectrum of nitrosyl cyanide, but based on its structure it looks like it would absorb in the thermal energy range hence acting as a greenhouse gas.
(I did try to calculate the spectrum myself, but gave up after the program took half an hour to give me a compilation error. Ah, where would we be without technology?)
Hah, my last semester of chemistry has already started to pay off! With IR spectra, the basic idea is actually surprisingly simple, and can be visualised quite nicely e.g. here. Basically, each molecule has a number of vibrational modes; if a photon in IR range arrives with energy corresponding to one of said modes, it gets absorbed, forming a peak on the spectrum. On the site I linked, you can select ‘Molecular vibrations ⇒ IR spectrum’ to see how it works (and then you can click on each peak to see the corresponding vibration, or just select one of the vibrations from the list). Sadly, that website doesn’t seem to have nitrosyl cyanide, else I would have used the spectrum from there.(I have no idea, but I’m incredibly grateful to have it. Also, seriously, you know how to calculate the spectrum of a molecule? That is utterly amazing.)
Honestly, me neither…this is really not my field. But I'll see what I can find--someone beyond Asimov must have written about this stuff, surely! (I hope…)
Ah, no worries. And, yeah…for some reason I'm having difficulty getting Toksha even down to Venusian temperatures, which is a bit annoying because a Venusian world is precisely what I wanted, but there's bound to be a way. Just have to modulate the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and crank up the bond albedo!(Also, for some reason I had assumed that Toksha was Earth-like, hence misinterpreting your comment about ‘how would the temperatures work’ as wondering if it would be enough of a greenhouse gas to sustain Earthlike temperatures. Given your comments now, it seems like you would want it to be some sort of an anti-greenhouse gas! Not that those exist, anyway.)
…okay, you have a ridiculously cool career path. Just saying.Hah, my last semester of chemistry has already started to pay off! With IR spectra, the basic idea is actually surprisingly simple, and can be visualised quite nicely e.g. here. Basically, each molecule has a number of vibrational modes; if a photon in IR range arrives with energy corresponding to one of said modes, it gets absorbed, forming a peak on the spectrum. On the site I linked, you can select ‘Molecular vibrations ⇒ IR spectrum’ to see how it works (and then you can click on each peak to see the corresponding vibration, or just select one of the vibrations from the list). Sadly, that website doesn’t seem to have nitrosyl cyanide, else I would have used the spectrum from there.
Of course, this approach doesn’t make very realistic spectra; you have to muck around with stuff like Density Functional Theory to get better predictions. Which is exactly what I foolishly tried to do for nitrosyl cyanide once I found it missing from that website. Searching for something along the lines of ‘calculate theoretical IR spectrum’ led me to http://hjkgrp.mit.edu/content/theoretic ... ectroscopy and hence Quantum-ESPRESSO… which it turned out I needed to compile from source, giving me a wait of half an hour followed by the aforementioned compiler error and associated frustration. Eventually I decided that even for me, this was too much effort for a simple ZBB post. (But as it happens, I’m doing some work on DFT this summer vacation; perhaps I’ll ask my supervisor if she knows of a good IR spectrum calculator.)
… and you say I know a lot about this stuff! Personally, I’d be absolutely fascinated to know how one calculates the temperature of a planet. (I struggle a lot with climate stuff, so anything you can tell me would help.)Pedant wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:38 amAh, no worries. And, yeah…for some reason I'm having difficulty getting Toksha even down to Venusian temperatures, which is a bit annoying because a Venusian world is precisely what I wanted, but there's bound to be a way. Just have to modulate the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and crank up the bond albedo!(Also, for some reason I had assumed that Toksha was Earth-like, hence misinterpreting your comment about ‘how would the temperatures work’ as wondering if it would be enough of a greenhouse gas to sustain Earthlike temperatures. Given your comments now, it seems like you would want it to be some sort of an anti-greenhouse gas! Not that those exist, anyway.)
If you’re already calling this a ‘career path’, you know more than me about my career! As far as I can tell this is just normal second-year undergraduate chemistry (except for the fact that I’m volunteering to help with some research)… I have no idea whether I’ll actually end up doing this stuff later on in life.…okay, you have a ridiculously cool career path. Just saying.Hah, my last semester of chemistry has already started to pay off! With IR spectra, the basic idea is actually surprisingly simple, and can be visualised quite nicely e.g. here. Basically, each molecule has a number of vibrational modes; if a photon in IR range arrives with energy corresponding to one of said modes, it gets absorbed, forming a peak on the spectrum. On the site I linked, you can select ‘Molecular vibrations ⇒ IR spectrum’ to see how it works (and then you can click on each peak to see the corresponding vibration, or just select one of the vibrations from the list). Sadly, that website doesn’t seem to have nitrosyl cyanide, else I would have used the spectrum from there.
Of course, this approach doesn’t make very realistic spectra; you have to muck around with stuff like Density Functional Theory to get better predictions. Which is exactly what I foolishly tried to do for nitrosyl cyanide once I found it missing from that website. Searching for something along the lines of ‘calculate theoretical IR spectrum’ led me to http://hjkgrp.mit.edu/content/theoretic ... ectroscopy and hence Quantum-ESPRESSO… which it turned out I needed to compile from source, giving me a wait of half an hour followed by the aforementioned compiler error and associated frustration. Eventually I decided that even for me, this was too much effort for a simple ZBB post. (But as it happens, I’m doing some work on DFT this summer vacation; perhaps I’ll ask my supervisor if she knows of a good IR spectrum calculator.)
Well, good news is, I finally got university permission to download the VPN to access the intranet to login to the server to run the software to make theoretical chemistry predictions, so once I actually get the program working, there’s a chance it might have an option to produce IR spectra. So I’ll report back if that works.Source doesn't quite work for me either, but bound to be something. If your supervisor does suggest something that would be fantastic, but in the meantime I've got to try and find a method to dump nitrosyl cyanide into the Tokshan atmosphere.
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