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Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:29 pm
by mèþru
I'm thinking that most of the South will permanently get rid of their anti-miscegenation laws during Reconstruction. I wonder if that would make Northern and Western states' laws a national political issue.
Also, if after the French leave Mexico the US and Mexico ratified the McLane–Ocampo Treaty how would that change Mexican politics? I think American interference would become the main national issue, but I don't have any clue on how that would work out in practice
EDIT:oh wait, I think the treaty won't be signed
nevermind
now I just need to toss every idea I had about Mexican-American relations into a fire

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:12 pm
by mèþru
Even in the South, I bet predominantly white counties and municipalities will enact local miscegenation laws that force people to marry in other parts of the state or don't allow them to have sex even if married.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:25 am
by mèþru
Loyalist governments are established before the Civil War ends, as they were in OTL, in Arkansas, Lousiana, Tennessee and Virginia.
The Confederate state governments of Arkansas, Louisiana, Missouri and Texas form a new country. They agree to a ceasefire with Union forces while negotiating a surrender, but Lincoln refuses to recognise the Confederate state governments over the Loyalist governments for readmission. The ceasefire ends when negotiations turn fruitless.
North Carolina negotiates a surrender before the election of 1864. Mississippi surrenders in early 1865 and Texas in mid-June 1865. All other state governments (but not necessarily the territories of the states) besides Georgia are captured by the end of 1865.
Georgia refuses to negotiate a surrender until Spring 1866 when they surrender without negotiations.

Even after the capture/surrender of their governments in Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, South Carolina and Tennessee, elements of the state guard and surrendered armies refuse to surrender and keep on the war; hiding in swamps and forest. At first, they rely on the support of sympathisers around the country to get the resources they need, but by the end of 1866 pretty much every one of them descended into banditry. The war officially ends with the surrender of the Army of the Trans-Mississippi in June 1865, not long after the surrender of Texas, but the fight against bandits/guerillas extends all the way into the 1870s. Most of the kind of people who would join the Ku Klux Klan instead join the guerillas, which helps keep them afloat despite a constant stream of embittered deserters.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:32 am
by mèþru
Descendants of the guerrillas as well as descendants of unionist guerrillas become the basis of white organised crime in the US South during Prohibition. Old enmities and ideological differences died down in the pursuit of swill and profit.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:08 pm
by mèþru
North Carolina's provision for surrender was that it may be allowed without hindrance or army occupation to continue government. In exchange, North Carolina would abolish slavery in its constitution. The federal government would also pardon high-level officials from North Carolina.

Mississippi surrendered without conditions, while Texas surrendered under the same conditions as North Carolina.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:59 pm
by mèþru
Lincoln's 10% plan is passed in Congress in late June/early July. I wonder who Lincoln would have appointed as head of Freedmen's Bureau? Definitely not hardline Radical Oliver Otis Howard.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:30 pm
by mèþru
Found the perfect person: Edward L. Pierce

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:12 am
by mèþru
The National Union Party continues as the name of the Republican Party. After several laws that confer equal protections to freedmen were passed with Lincoln's approval, some southern National Union Party members felt betrayed by Lincoln and formed a new party, the Conservative Unionists. Lincoln then made a deal with them to not challenge Conservative Unionists in southern elections. This outraged many Republicans, who then refounded the Radical Democracy party. This led to a breakdown of the Reconstruction Coalition: Carpetbaggers became split on whether to vote CU or RD, scalawags voted CU and freedmen voted RD. Free people of colour in Louisiana tended to vote CU, but free blacks elsewhere voted RD. State legislatures among captured states voted for CU Senators, in surrendered states for the Democratic Party. Only in South Carolina did RD representatives make a majority of representatives to Congress elected in 1866, but the RDs had a higher success on in state and local elections throughout the south. After the 1866 elections, the NUs voted along with the RDs more than they did with the CUs, which lead to the reconciliation and merger of the two. Moderate Republicans who opposed the reconciliation and black suffrage then established the Independent Republicans, which merged with the CUs into the Independent Unionists. Fremont runs as the RD-backed candidate for president in the 1868 NU convention but ultimately loses to Stanton. Fremont wins the VP nomination, but he and Stanton don't get along as during the war Fremont spread libel about Stanton's conduct. Stanton, however, becomes considerably ill during the campaign and changes his mind on running, just insisting that Fremont doesn't replace him as the candidate. The convention reconvenes and nominates Salmon P. Chase for president while keeping Fremont as the VP. While moderate Horace Greeley supported the ticket, many others rejected a double Radical and threw their support behind the IU candidate: Lincoln's VP Andrew Johnson. The Democrats nominated a Southern racist, which lead to unionist Democrats also lending support for the IU candidate.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:17 am
by mèþru
Lincoln was widely expected by the public to endorse Andrew Johnson, but it was no surprise to insiders that he stuck with his old party. Lincoln's endorsement turned the race from a referendum on Reconstruction into a referendum on Lincoln's legacy. The IU continued to profess respect for Lincoln while the NU's most fervent supporters were RD critics of Lincoln, but the opinions of the politicians did not match the ballots.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:42 am
by mèþru
Johnson won the electoral vote, but Chase came the closest to winning the national vote because Johnson won by low margins in many of the states he picked up. Northern Democrats upon election generally changed their party affiliation to IU. The defeat lead to a reversal of Reconstruction policies and a repeal of laws granting equal protection under the law, but the 14th amendment, which granted citizenship to future generations of black citizens, stayed in place. The Freedmen's Bureau was kept, but reformed to serve the employment interests of Southern plantation owners. Relations with the UK and France, shaky under Lincoln, were patched. The reversal of equal protection laws made Lincoln decide to defy norms and become active in politics in his post-presidential career. In late 1869, he organised yet another convention of the NU and began a process of party reform. The system of patronage and politics of association that the Republican party relied on previously was now unpopular, and even worse failed to hand the NU a victory. Lincoln proposed a centralised party system which put Congressional party policy and presidential campaign management in the hands of the RNC and adding a promise of civil service reform to the party platform. The proposals were almost unanimously agreed upon by the convention. In the meantime, the mainly Whiggish southern branch of the IU fought heavily with mainly Democrat northern branch over national improvements such as the railroads. Several times, the IU seemed doomed to split. While actual splits failed to occur, the fights left voters disenchanted with a party too big and varied to agree on any policies, plus the actual sway of voters in the south was against Whiggism and the sway of voters in the North was for it. The 1870 elections returned the NU to a majority in both houses. Former Democrat John A. Logan was selected as the NU presidential candidate and Benjamin Wade as his running mate. They won in a landslide in 1872.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:05 am
by mèþru
NU tries to restore the rights of free blacks by an equality amendment after the 1870 election, but it fails by one state to achieve the required threshold by the time of the next election. The passage of the amendment dominates politics until Logan promises feminist groups who opposed the amendment for not including women to support a 16th amendment conferring universal suffrage on all unconvicted citizens. The amendment subsequently is ratified in several more states.

I'm not sure about if the 16th amendment would get ratified or not.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:22 pm
by mèþru
Nevermind about John Logan being president, my reasons for that happening rely on Lincoln being alive; I think he'll die from a genetic condition by then. That could impact the passage of the alt 15th amendment, but probably not the presidential election.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:52 am
by mèþru
The kårroť Wiki has moved and now also hosts my alternate history project: methru.miraheze.org

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:25 pm
by mèþru
The Meiji Constitution establishes a federal instead of unitary state, but the majority of the power is given to the emperor as in OTL; the main difference is that prefectures elect their own governors and their assemblies have authority to enact their own laws and budgets, which results in some powers that were invested in prefectural governor in OTL remaining the sole purview of the national government. The status of fu vs ken is abolished, but when Ezo is admitted it is given a special status different from the prefectures due to the special circumstances (tripartite treaty between Ezo, France and Japan) under which it was admitted, giving its government extra powers and unique exemptions not accorded to the prefectures. Okinawa prefecture is later similarly given autonomous status as part of an accord to end terrorism by Okinawan nationalists directed at both the prefectural government and at the national government.

Prefectures are called 県 ken, Ezo is called a 州 shu "state" and Okinawa is a 自治県 jichiken "autonomous prefecture"

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:54 am
by mèþru
I'm trying to come up with education policies for Sierra Leone, the Gold Coast and Nigeria to be adopted in 1926. Each of those three would have separate policies, and each would be designed to create compulsory, non-missionary education for ages 6-14. They will also establish universities and secondary education. All the money for implementing an education system would come from the Imperial Federation's Colonial Office, but the primary and secondary education does not necessarily have to be run by the government, so long as the new schools are not controlled by the church. Whatever the initial policy is, the public interest would be for minimal funding through taxes paid by member states (at the time, Canada, Ireland, the Maritime Union, the United Kingdom and South Africa). I think that the government could easily pass a provision instituting a schooling tax on the natives, but I think it would be even simpler/cheaper for the government to incentivise white people to establish secular private schools and then build public schools wherever the coverage by public schools are too low. The Imperial Federation will be working with local, missionary-educated and madrassa-educated native elites of many political leanings both pro- and anti-British in establishing education. No provision will be made in the law requiring primary education to be in a certain language, whether English or native, but I think all non-Islamic universities will be English only.

Given all this, what law do you think is the easiest for the IF to pass in 1926 to create compulsory, non-missionary education for ages 6-14 by 1941? If they stay committed to the goal, in what ways will they change the laws between 1926 and 1941? What policies will be taken by the Colonial Office in regards to implementation in each colony? I think that the law will be passed by a Liberal (Imperial-wide party, not the British one) government, but the government can change hands multiple times between 1926 and 1941.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:58 am
by mèþru
I'm working on some ideas for a Lincoln speech:
"Some accuse me of being too moderate. Othe's say my policies are too radically Whiggish. There are even a few who call me a Democrat. I tell you that all these allegations are true. It is my duty to represent the whole nation. Our great nation is one of both moderates and radicals, freedmen and former masters, Whigs and Democrats. I aim to serve the whole of my nation, and to do so I will do not as any political faction demands but as I feel is the closest to the will of Providence."

And a Davis one:
"Cowardly and wrong as I maintain the descision to surrender was, it was done by a legitimate government of the South. All parties who reject it and continue to fight are traitors to our cause of independence; they flout the laws of the Confederate States of America. In proclaiming a new government without the approval of their legislatures, the Governors of Georgia, South Carolina, Florida and Alabama have declared rebellion against the Confederacy and Democracy. In refusing to co-operate with the legitimate legislature both during and after wartime, they have declared themselves Tyrants and enemies of Reason. With deep regrets, I give full support to Mr. Lincoln in imposing a democratic and reasonable authority on the so-called 'Continuation Government'."

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:15 am
by mèþru
Also, I think Johnson will arrange for the pardon and surrender of most groups still in rebellion by the end of 1869, ensuring in 1870 and 1872 a solid IU majority in afflicted white-majority areas that voted for the IU and/or Democrats in 1868.

I have Lincoln negotiate and gain the purchase of Santo Domingo in 1867. After purchase the US must defeat governments rival to the one that sold the island amid heavy guerrilla warfare. It becomes a state in 1873 after the Republicans in favour promise to not end or renegotiate treaties with the tribes of the Indian Territory ratified under Johnson.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:23 am
by mèþru
I think Napoleon IV is going to turn the non-departmentalised parts of Algeria into an independent kingdom. Then he will make all the Muslims and Jews face a choice between leaving or living under French civil law with citizenship (which the Muslims were against because they wanted to follow their own marriage and inheritance laws). After the Muslims rebel and are crushed, how many would flee and how many would stay in French Algeria? Also, what can the kingdom be called? Algiers is in the departmentalised portion, so it can't be called Algeria. I'm currently thinking Kingdom of Sahara, but I don't like the name.

The strip of desert I had in my maps connecting French Algeria to Mali is going to be under Moroccan rule instead.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:01 pm
by mèþru
Napoleon IV bans selling arms without consent of the military authority among French protectorates in West Africa, sparking a war with various independent states and military leaders that were buying arms from the British. They are divided into loyal protectorates.

France is federalised into several regions, each with their own parliaments and budgets. The Four Communes, the annexed areas of the other parts of Africa, Cochinchina, Guyana, French India and the French Caribbean are also made regions with representation in the national parliament.

I changed my mind about imposition of French civil laws. Some laws just don't apply to non-citizens. Most Muslims will not be citizens until the consensus of automatic jurisdiction (everyone is automatically a citizen of the country they live in) is adopted by Western countries in the 1910s, which will probably trigger a Muslim rebellion in Algeria and Senegal.

Re: Civil War Alternate History (necroes welcome)

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:22 pm
by mèþru
When socialists come to power in France, the African protectorates in West Africa will take the opportunity to cancel their treaties and become sovereign nations.
I'm not sure which ones will unite or even exist though
Where do you think the capital of Sahara should be, and what is a better name for it?