Zompist Bboard Again

Well, yes, now that you put it that way, I don't really know what I was thinking.

jal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:56 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:21 amI think I just discovered that the <e> at the end of Arthur C. Clarke's name is silent. Would never have guessed that.

Really? I don't think I've ever assumed otherwise (i.e. always pronounced it "Clark"). Don't know why though, I don't think I've ever heard a native speaker pronounce it. Probably because final e is almost never pronounced.

I should note, though, that it is traditional to pronounce final e in German names as /i/ in the dialect here.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:02 am
I should note, though, that it is traditional to pronounce final e in German names as /i/ in the dialect here.

♫♫ Dear Officer Krupke, we're very upset... ♫♫

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:02 amI should note, though, that it is traditional to pronounce final e in German names as /i/ in the dialect here.

I was aware of this (that is, pronouncing a final <e> as /i/ in some names), but since "Clarke" is clearly an English name, it never occured to me to pronounce it like that.


JAL

axolotl wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:29 pm

2+3 Clusivity wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:57 pm <album> as /'(ʔ)æl.bləm/.

.... still doesn't sound right to me without two /l/s. Sigh.

Kinda remind me of /j/ and /w/ copying across syllables in Avestan.

I have a similar thing - "only" becomes "olnly."

Oh man.... yeah, I'm doing that too, but no one's pointed it out.

TIL 'phonemic' has a long e, as do all -emic words. Unsure if this is just dialectal variation rather than a misunderstanding, but i also grew up saying /ɝmi/ for 'army'.

I only learned a few years ago that "Catholic", in the English language, is effectively a two-syllable word. Before that, I thought the "o" was pronounced instead of silent.

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 12:50 pm I only learned a few years ago that "Catholic", in the English language, is effectively a two-syllable word. Before that, I thought the "o" was pronounced instead of silent.

It should be noted, though, that the "o" is pronounced - and stressed - in Catholicism /kəˈθɒlɪˌsɪzəm/.

I remember asking on the ZBB whether "Catholic" was stressed on the first or the second syllable, at a time when I still thought the second syllable was "tho", leading to various mutual misunderstandings, which eventually helped me figure out how it was pronounced.

Oh yeah. I figured that out thanks to The Meaning of Life.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 2:48 pm Oh yeah. I figured that out thanks to The Meaning of Life.

That might leave you with very atypical expectations of how the word "but" is pronounced, though.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 1:10 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 12:50 pm I only learned a few years ago that "Catholic", in the English language, is effectively a two-syllable word. Before that, I thought the "o" was pronounced instead of silent.

It should be noted, though, that the "o" is pronounced - and stressed - in Catholicism /kəˈθɒlɪˌsɪzəm/.

Kind of fucked up how -ly doesn't move stress (altérnative > altérnatively, unfórtunate > unfórtunately) but -y does (phótograph > photógraphy, sýnonym > synónymy, pólymath > polýmathy, maybe ánalogue > análogy, I think also báckstab > backstábby/backstáb-y?), and -ism seems to be a bit up in the air (Cátholic > Cathólicism weirdly, but Prótestant > Prótestantism not *Protéstantism, and cápital > Cápitalism not *Capítalism), but I guess that's just English for ya.

Shákespeare > Shakespéarean > Shakespéareanism is also a bit interesting.

Native suffixes don't shift the accent. Latinate ones can.

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 12:50 pm I only learned a few years ago that "Catholic", in the English language, is effectively a two-syllable word. Before that, I thought the "o" was pronounced instead of silent.

I do say it as a three syllable word in isolation and when not speaking quickly. It's one of those words which really depends on how fast I'm speaking, but I'd still say it's predominately trisyllabic for me.

On the other hand, police is pretty much universally monosyllabic for me, which I thought was normal until people assured me it wasn't.

ava wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 4:36 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 12:50 pm I only learned a few years ago that "Catholic", in the English language, is effectively a two-syllable word. Before that, I thought the "o" was pronounced instead of silent.

I do say it as a three syllable word in isolation and when not speaking quickly. It's one of those words which really depends on how fast I'm speaking, but I'd still say it's predominately trisyllabic for me.

For me Catholic is only trisyllabic when spoken very carefully and slowly.

ava wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 4:36 pmOn the other hand, police is pretty much universally monosyllabic for me, which I thought was normal until people assured me it wasn't.

You pronounce it like "please"?


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 9:24 am

ava wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 4:36 pmOn the other hand, police is pretty much universally monosyllabic for me, which I thought was normal until people assured me it wasn't.

You pronounce it like "please"?

"Please" has /z/, not /s/.

As a USAmerican raised Catholic, trisyllabic "Catholic" sounds as affected as "sophomore".

So wait, it's /ˈhɛlənə/ but /ˈseːnt həˈliːnə/? What kind of fuckery is that?

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 9:36 am"Please" has /z/, not /s/.

Right. Those unwritten z-s are the bane of non-native speakers like me :(.


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 9:39 am

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 9:36 am"Please" has /z/, not /s/.

Right. Those unwritten z-s are the bane of non-native speakers like me .

It's written. With very few exceptions, <Vce> represents /s/; <Vse> represents /z/.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 9:42 am

jal wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 9:39 am

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 9:36 am"Please" has /z/, not /s/.

Right. Those unwritten z-s are the bane of non-native speakers like me .

It's written. With very few exceptions, <Vce> represents /s/; <Vse> represents /z/.

There are indeed quite a lot of exceptions to the <Vse> represents /z/ part... including crease, cease, lease.