Zompist Bboard Again

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:16 am [ŋaːlʔ tjaːʔ qloːŋ djeʔ qliɡ ɢʷrɯbs zlɯːs hljaŋ ɢʷaŋ kun mlruts tuŋ tjans toːʔ pleːwɢ ʔsaŋ kun]
"My father was a general who fought in the army of the King of Shang"

[ŋaːlʔ ɢʷal tjɯw ɢʷaŋ njɯ tjans]
"I fight for the King of Zhou"

Every syllabe has a meaning and no can be deleted.

Would you mind giving the Hanzi for this?

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:05 pm

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:16 am [ŋaːlʔ tjaːʔ qloːŋ djeʔ qliɡ ɢʷrɯbs zlɯːs hljaŋ ɢʷaŋ kun mlruts tuŋ tjans toːʔ pleːwɢ ʔsaŋ kun]
"My father was a general who fought in the army of the King of Shang"

[ŋaːlʔ ɢʷal tjɯw ɢʷaŋ njɯ tjans]
"I fight for the King of Zhou"

Every syllabe has a meaning and no can be deleted.

Would you mind giving the Hanzi for this?

Why? I omitted it on purpose as I thought no body would need it.

You can still work on Catalan for a few more rounds if you want to

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:38 pm

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:05 pm

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:16 am [ŋaːlʔ tjaːʔ qloːŋ djeʔ qliɡ ɢʷrɯbs zlɯːs hljaŋ ɢʷaŋ kun mlruts tuŋ tjans toːʔ pleːwɢ ʔsaŋ kun]
"My father was a general who fought in the army of the King of Shang"

[ŋaːlʔ ɢʷal tjɯw ɢʷaŋ njɯ tjans]
"I fight for the King of Zhou"

Every syllabe has a meaning and no can be deleted.

Would you mind giving the Hanzi for this?

Why? I omitted it on purpose as I thought no body would need it.

Because the orthography is generally provided so it can be adapted. Why would you omit it?

Repost then

我的父亲是在商王军队中战斗的将军
[ŋaːlʔ tjaːʔ qloːŋ djeʔ qliɡ ɢʷrɯbs zlɯːs hljaŋ ɢʷaŋ kun mlruts tuŋ tjans toːʔ pleːwɢ ʔsaŋ kun]
"My father was a general who fought in the army of the King of Shang"

我为周王而战
[ŋaːlʔ ɢʷal tjɯw ɢʷaŋ njɯ tjans]
"I fight for the King of Zhou"

Every syllabe has a meaning and no can be deleted.

1. /ɢ ɢʷ/ lenite to /ʁ ʁʷ/.
2. /tj dj lj nj/ coalesce to /t͡ɕ d͡ʑ ʎ ɲ/.
3. Nasals and /ʔ/ respectively trigger nasalization or creaky voice in an immediately preceding vowel in the same word.
4. Coda /s/ voices to /z/ after another voiced consonant.

我的父亲是在商王军队中战斗的将军
[ŋaːlʔ t͡ɕa̰ːʔ qlõːŋ d͡ʑḛʔ qliɡ ʁʷrɯbz zlɯːs hʎãŋ ʁʷãŋ kũn mlruts tũŋ t͡ɕãnz to̰ːʔ pleːwʁ ʔsãŋ kũn]
"My father was a general who fought in the army of the King of Shang"

我为周王而战
[ŋaːlʔ ʁʷal t͡ɕɯw ʁʷãŋ ɲɯ t͡ɕãnz]
"I fight for the King of Zhou"

• [t͡ɕ d͡ʑ] > [ʈ͡ʂ ɖ͡ʐ] except before high front vowels;
• Post-consonantal and coda [l r] > [j]; a sequence of [lr] or [rl] has only the second element change as an initial, or the first as a final
• "Satemisation" of velars, [k g ŋ] > [ɲ c͡ɕ ɟ͡ʑ], ejecting a non-syllabic [i̯] except before [i]; [zj] > [ʑi̯]
• [q ʔ] > [k]; [qj] > [c(i̯)]; [hʎ] > [çi̯]
• Long vowels shorten before a sequence of two or more coda consonants
• [aj jɯb i̯ɯː jut ew ɯw] > [eː i̯yː i̯yː i̯y i̯øː uː]; [ju] > [i̯y];
• Terminal [ɟ͡ʑ] > [ʑ]; terminal [ʑ z] > [r]
• Loss of labialisation before front vowels

我的父亲是在商王军队中战斗的将军
[ɲi̯eːk ʈ͡ʂa̰ːk ci̯õːɲ ɖ͡ʐḛk cir ʁi̯yːr ʑi̯yːr hi̯ãɲ ʁʷãɲ c͡ɕi̯ỹn mli̯yːs tũɲ ʈ͡ʂãnr to̰ːk pi̯øːʁ ksãɲ kũn]
Nhiêk châk hiônh jek hir rhiûr zhiûr hianh rhwanh chiun mliûs tunh chanr tôk piêorh ksanh kun.
"My father was a general who fought in the army of the King of Shang"

我为周王而战
[ɲi̯eːk ʁeː ʈ͡ʂuː ʁʷãɲ ɲi̯y ʈ͡ʂãnr]

Nhiêk rhê chû ruanh nhiu chanr.
"I fight for the King of Zhou"

• Coda rhotics metathesise into the onset
• /i̯/ > /l/ following a consonant; /ll/ > /dl/
• Creaky voiced vowels glottalise the onset.
• /lṼ rṼ/ > /nV/
• Nasal vowels denasalised before nasal consonants
• Short vowels lax /i y u e a/ > /ɪ ɨ ʊ æ ʌ/, then long vowels shorten
• /ʁr ʑr/ > /qr ɟr/
• /c͡ɕ/ > /c/

/ɲlek ʈ͡ʂ’ak cnoɲ ʈ͡ʂ’æk cɪr qrly ɟrly hnʌɲ ʁwʌɲ cnɨn mdlys tʊɲ ʈ͡ʂnʌn t’ok pløʁ ksʌɲ kʊn/
我的父亲是在商王军队中战斗的将军
Nhlek ch'ak thnonh ch'ãk thĩr qrlü dhrlü hnẽnh rhwẽnh thnïn mdlüs tũnh chnẽn t'ok plörh ksẽnh kũn.

/ɲlek ʁe ʈ͡ʂu ʁwʌɲ ɲlɨ ʈ͡ʂnʌn/
我为周王而战
Nhlek rhe chu rhwẽnh nhlï chnẽn.

• Epinthetic vowels appear to break up clusters:
  • Palatal consonants eject following [i]
  • Most others duplicate the following vowel;
  • Labials, however, produce [u]
• [æ] > [ia]
• Loss of glottalisation;
• Velars, uvulars, and retroflexes become palatals before front vowels;

[ɲi'lek ʈ͡ʂak ci'noɲ c͡ɕiak cɪr cy'rly ɟi'rly hʌnʌɲ ʁʌwʌɲ cinɨn mud'lys tʊɲ ʈ͡ʂʌnʌn tok pløʁ kʌsʌɲ kʊn/
我的父亲是在商王军队中战斗的将军
Nhilek chak kinonh chiak kir kürlü girlü hënënh rhëwënh kinyn mudlüs tënën chënën tok plörh kësënh kun.

/ɲi'lek ʁe ʈ͡ʂu ʁʌ'wʌɲ ɲi'lɨ ʈ͡ʂʌnʌn/
我为周王而战
Nhilek rhe chu rhëwënh nhily chënën.

• Bisyllables are reanalysed as sesquisyllables with the form CVC.C̩(C). Stress is shifted to the first vowel, and the second syllable is reduced to a single syllabic consonant with an optional coda. Syllabic /k/ shifts to /ɰ̩/. /iaC/ becomes /is.C̩/.
• Coda /w ʁ/ > /f/
• /ʁ/ > /j/
• /pl/ > /c/; then all /c,c͡ɕ/ > /s/
• /ʈ͡ʂ/ > /ʂ/

/ˈɲil.ɰ̩ ʂak ˈsin.ɲ̩ ˈsis.ɰ̩ sɪr ˈsyr.l̩ ˈɟir.l̩ ˈhʌn.ɲ̩ ˈjʌf.ɲ̩ ˈsin.n̩ ˈmud.l̩s tʊɲ ˈʂʌn.n̩ tok søf ˈkʌs.ɲ̩ kʊn/
我的父亲是在商王军队中战斗的将军
Nhilẏ chak cinṇ̃ cisẏ cir çürḷ girḷ hënṇ̃ yëfṇ̃ cinṇ mudḷs tënh chënṇ tok çöf kësṇ̃ kun.

/ˈɲil.ɰ̩ je ʂu ˈjʌf.ɲ̩ ˈɲil.ɰ̩ ˈʂʌn.n̩/
我为周王而战
Nhilẏ ye chu yëfṇ̃ nhilẏ chënṇ.

• Epenthetic [i] appears after all terninal consonants other than nasals and [f]; after [f], [u] is inserted instead.
• The sequence [nn] is broken up by [a], sequences involving [f.C] are broken up by [u], sequences involving [.ɲ̩] are otherwise broken up by [i];
• A nasal in such a sequence geminates across the syllable boundary; [s] also geminates before [i];
• [ɲ] > [ʎ], [l] > [r], [r] > [ʁ] > [x], but the changes are blocked by gemination or a sequence of any of those two sounds; [h] merges into [x];

我的父亲是在商王军队中战斗的将军
/ˈʎir.ɰ̩i 'ʂa.ki ˈsin.niʎ ˈsis.ɰ̩i sɪ.xi ˈsyr.li ˈɟir.l̩i ˈxʌn.niʎ ˈjʌ.fuʎ ˈsin.nan̩ ˈmud.ri.si tʊʎ ˈʂʌn.nan̩ 'to.ki 'sø.fu ˈkʌs.siʎ kʊn/
Lhirwi shaki sinnilh siswi syhi sürḷi girḷi hënnilh yëfulh sinnaṇ mudrisi tulh shënan toki söfu këssilh kun.

我为周王而战
/ˈʎir.ɰ̩i je ʂu ˈjʌ.fuʎ ˈʎir.ɰ̩i ˈʂʌn.nan̩/
Lhirwi ye shu yëfulh lhirwi shënnan.

1. Retroactively deleted the syllabic consonant diacritics from the IPA transcription where no longer accurate.
2. 亲 is now explicitly marked as having first-syllable stress just like all the other polysyllabic characters.
3. /ʎ/ lenites to /j/; resulting /ij/ smooths to /i/.
4. Stressed vowels lengthen in unchecked syllables; the vowel also lengthens in unchecked monosyllables regardless of stress.

我的父亲是在商王军队中战斗的将军
/ˈjir.ɰ̩i 'ʂaː.ki ˈsin.niː ˈsis.ɰi ˈsɪː.xi ˈsyr.li ˈɟir.li ˈxʌn.niː ˈjʌː.fuj ˈsin.nan ˈmud.ri.si tʊj ˈʂʌn.nan 'toː.ki 'søː.fu ˈkʌs.siː kʊn/
Yirwi shāki sinnī siswi syhi sürli girli hënnī yë̄fuy sinnan mudrisi tuy shënan tōki sȫfu këssī kun.

我为周王而战
/ˈjir.ɰi jeː ʂuː ˈjʌ.fuj ˈjir.ɰi ˈʂʌn.nan/
Yirwi yē shū yë̄fuy yirwi shënnan.

• [uj ʊj] > [y]
• i-Umlaut: before [i j y], [a(ː) ʌ(ː) ɪ(ː) u(ː) o(ː)] > [e(ː) e(ː) i(ː) y(ː) ø(ː)], [ʌ(ː)] > [ø(ː)] before [y]
• [ʌ(ː) i(ː)] > [a(ː) e(ː)] before [a]
• [ʊ] tenses to [u]
• Terminal [r] > [ɐ̯]
• Loss of [j] before [i]; [ɟ] > [ç]; [ʂ], and [s] before [i y] and preconsonantally > [ʃ]; [t] > [t͡ʃ] under the same conditions
• [ɰ] > [v]

我的父亲是在商王军队中战斗的将军
/ˈiɐ̯.vi 'ʃeː.ki ˈʃin.niː ˈʃiʃ.vi ˈʃiː.xi ˈʃyɐ̯.li ˈçiɐ̯.li ˈxen.niː ˈjøː.fy ˈsen.nan ˈmyd.ri.ʃi t͡ʃy ˈʃan.nan 'tøː.ki 'søː.fu ˈkɛʃ.ʃiː kun/
Irwi schäki schinnie schischwi schiehi schürli hennie jöhfü sennan müdrischü schannan töhki söhfu kesschie kun.

我为周王而战
/ˈiɐ̯.ɰi jeː ʃuː ˈjø.fy ˈiɐ̯.vi ˈʃan.nan/
Irwi jeh schuh jöfu irwi schannan.

This Sinitic language is now apparently German.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:36 pm This Sinitic language is now apparently German.

That's a very big change! From what I think was Chinese to German. And in just 8 posts, 44 sound changes total! (an average of 5.5 sound changes per post.)

• /ʃ ç j/ > s
• /t͡ʃ/ > /t͡s/
• /iɐ̯ yɐ̯/ > /ɨ/
• Umlaut caused by /i y u/ in post-tonic syllables, causing /ɨ eː øː e ø ɛ/ > /i iː yː i y e/; then /i y u/ are lost where possible.
• /ɰ/ > /v/
• Final devoicing, including /l n/ > /ɬ n̥/
• Post-tonic long vowels shortened.
• Unstressed /i a/ > /ə ɐ/
• /x t/ > /s t͡s/ before high vowels

/ˈif ˈsiːk ˈsin.nə ˈsis.və ˈsiːx ˈsiɬ ˈsiɬ ˈsin.nə ˈsyːf ˈsen.nɐn̥ ˈmyd.rə.sə t͡sy ˈsan.nɐn̥ ˈt͡syːk ˈsyːf ˈkes.sə kun̥/
我的父亲是在商王军队中战斗的将军
Ẅf sëëk sinne siswe sëëh sẅl sẅl sënne sø̈ø̈f sennan mydrese zy sannan tø̈ø̈k zø̈ø̈f kæ̈sse kun.

/ˈif seː suː ˈsyf ˈif ˈsan.nɐn̥/
我为周王而战
Ẅf see suu sø̈f ẅf sannan.

I think it's time now for a new text, so... what if Old English had another descendant that went in another direction?

Hwæt!

Lo!

wē

we

Gār‐Dena

spear-Dane.GEN.PL

‖

in

in

ġeār‐dagum

yore-days.DAT

þēod‐cyninga

king.GEN.PL

‖

þrym

glory.NOM

ġefrūnon,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

hū

how

þā

those.NOM

æðelingas

prince.NOM.PL

‖

ellen

bravery.ACC.PL

fremedon.

do.PL.PRET

/ˈʍæt weː ˈɡɑːrˌde.nɑ | in ˈjæ͜ɑːrˌdɑ.ɣum ‖
ˈθe͜oːdˌky.niŋ.ɡɑ | ˈθrym je.ˈfruː.non ‖
ˈxuː θɑː ˈæ.ðe.liŋ.ɡɑs | ˈeɫ.ɫen ˈfre.me.don/

Lo! We of Spear-Danes in days of yore,
of the fame of the kings, have heard,
how those nobles did great deeds.

The unformatted Old English for ease of copy and paste:

r → ∅ / _# / in polysyllables only (nowhere lol)
æ → jɛ / unstressed (nowhere lol)
ɣ → j
ʍ → f
x ɡ → k kʰ
t d → tʰ t
ð → d
θ → t͡sʰ / #_
θ → t͡s

Hwæt!

Lo!

wē

we

Gār‐Dena

spear-Dane.GEN.PL

‖

in

in

ġeār‐dagum

yore-days.DAT

þēod‐cyninga

king.GEN.PL

‖

þrym

glory.NOM

ġefrūnon,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

hū

how

þā

those.NOM

æðelingas

prince.NOM.PL

‖

ellen

bravery.ACC.PL

fremedon.

do.PL.PRET

/ˈfætʰ weː ˈɡɑːrˌte.nɑ | in ˈjæ͜ɑːrˌtɑ.jum ‖
ˈt͡sʰe͜oːtˌky.niŋ.ɡɑ | ˈt͡srym je.ˈfruː.non ‖
ˈkuː t͡sʰɑː ˈæ.de.liŋ.ɡɑs | ˈeɫ.ɫen ˈfre.me.ton/

Lo! We of Spear-Danes in days of yore,
of the fame of the kings, have heard,
how those nobles did great deeds.

1. Retroactively apply a few missed changes.
2. /j/ formerly pronounced /ɣ/ gets an overdot over its g.
3. Short /e o/ lower to /ɛ ɔ/.

(Not a lot of changes, but this isn't the easiest game to play on the phone.)

Hwæt!

Lo!

wē

we

Gār‐Dena

spear-Dane.GEN.PL

‖

in

in

ġeār‐daġum

yore-days.DAT

þēod‐cyninga

king.GEN.PL

‖

þrym

glory.NOM

ġefrūnon,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

hū

how

þā

those.NOM

æðelingas

prince.NOM.PL

‖

ellen

bravery.ACC.PL

fremedon.

do.PL.PRET

/ˈfætʰ weː ˈkʰɑːˌtɛ.nɑ | in ˈjæ͜ɑːˌtɑ.jum ‖
ˈt͡sʰe͜oːtˌky.niŋ.ɡɑ | ˈt͡srym jɛ.ˈfruː.nɔn ‖
ˈkuː t͡sʰɑː ˈæ.de.liŋ.kʰɑs | ˈɛɫ.ɫɛn ˈfrɛ.mɛ.tɔn/

Lo! We of Spear-Danes in days of yore,
of the fame of the kings, have heard,
how those nobles did great deeds.

• [j] > [ɟ]; [kʰ k w l] > [cʰ c ɥ ʎ] before front vowels;
• [ɫ] > [j]; [ej] > [eː]; [æ e] > [j] before long vowels;
• [cʰ c ɟ] develop an offglide [j] except before [bki]i[/bk];
• The "Great Vowel Shift" happens much earlier, with some results different:
  • [eː ɑː oː uː] > [iː ɛː uː yː]
  • Vowels in stressed unchecked syllables lengthen;
  • Medial posttonic vowels are significantly reduced, as are some inflectional endings; reduction also frequently occurs in unstressed terminal syllables before [n];
• Spelling is updated.

Fæth!

Lo!

wí

we

Géar‐Téne

spear-Dane.GEN.PL

‖

in

in

giéar‐tagiem

yore-days.DAT

ziút‐cýninga

king.GEN.PL

‖

zrym

glory.NOM

giefrýnon,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

Cý

how

zá

those.NOM

ǽdelinges

prince.NOM.PL

‖

éien

bravery.ACC.PL

frémeten.

do.PL.PRET

/ˈfætʰ ɥiː ˈɡɛːrˌteː.nə | in ˈɟjɛːrˌtɑː.ɟjəm ‖
ˈt͡sʰjuːtˌcyː.nɪŋ.ɡə | ˈt͡srym ɟjɪ.ˈfryː.nən ‖
ˈkyː t͡sʰɑː ˈæː.də.lɪŋ.ɡəs | ˈiː.jən ˈfreː.mə.tən/

Lo! We of Spear-Danes in days of yore,
of the fame of the kings, have heard,
how those nobles did great deeds.

• ə → ɑ / _#
• ə → o / _C[bilabial]
• ə → ɛ / else
• ɪ → i
• n → ∅ / _# when unstressed
• t͡s t͡sʰ → s sʰ
• k ɡ → tʃ ʒ / _{e(ː)(i),i(ː),y(ː)}
• sj sʰj zj ɟ → ʃ ʃ ʒ ʒ

Fæth!

Lo!

wí

we

Géar‐Téne

spear-Dane.GEN.PL

‖

in

in

giéar‐tagiem

yore-days.DAT

ziút‐cýninga

king.GEN.PL

‖

zrym

glory.NOM

giefrýnon,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

Cý

how

zá

those.NOM

ǽdelinges

prince.NOM.PL

‖

éien

bravery.ACC.PL

frémeten.

do.PL.PRET

/ˈfætʰ ɥiː ˈʒɛːrˌteː.nɑ | in ˈʒjɛːrˌtɑː.ʒjom ‖
ˈʃuːtˌcyː.niŋ.ɡɑ | ˈsrym ʒji.ˈfryː.nɛ ‖
ˈtʃyː ʃɑː ˈæː.dɛ.liŋ.ʒɛs | ˈiː.jɛn ˈfreː.mɛ.tɛ/

Lo! We of Spear-Danes in days of yore,
of the fame of the kings, have heard,
how those nobles did great deeds.

BTW have we had something Indian? May be of whatever family?