Zompist Bboard Again

Thank you! Hm, that article says

Pottery is one of the oldest human inventions, originating before the Neolithic period, with ceramic objects like the Gravettian culture Venus of Dolní Věstonice figurine discovered in the Czech Republic dating back to 29,000–25,000 BC,[2] and pottery vessels that were discovered in Jiangxi, China, which date back to 18,000 BC. Early Neolithic and pre-Neolithic pottery artifacts have been found, in Jōmon Japan (10,500 BC),[3] the Russian Far East (14,000 BC),[4] Sub-Saharan Africa (9,400 BC),[5] South America (9,000s-7,000s BC),[6] and the Middle East (7,000s-6,000s BC).

I wonder how much of that is due to good or bad luck in preservation - it seems strange to me that the Middle East would have developed pottery so much later than various other places.

I'm asking because my main proto-naming-language has some name etymologies related to pottery, but none related to agriculture or metalwork, and I've belatedly started to ask myself how plausible that is.

I believe the oldest pottery in China is from the southern part of the country. That area and Japan have something in common that, say, Egypt does not: if you put food in a hole in the ground and come back two days later, it's definitely going to be rotten. Japan in the summer is more humid than Atlantis. So maybe pottery developed later in places where you could just store dried staples in a clay-lined pit dug into the ground above the water table.

Thank you - interesting.

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:13 pmJapan in the summer is more humid than Atlantis.

Of course, since nobody knows where Atlantis was, it's anyone's guess how humid it was In my pet theory, though, Atlantis was in a place which is indeed famous for its humidity, namely Britain.

Given that according to legend, Atlantis is currently at the bottom of a body of water... it's probably pretty darn humid.

alynnidalar wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:14 pm Given that according to legend, Atlantis is currently at the bottom of a body of water... it's probably pretty darn humid.

Technically, I think it isn't. If humidity is the amount of water vapour in the ambient fluid, I suspect it isn't.

...you've got me there, I admit.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:23 pm

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:13 pmJapan in the summer is more humid than Atlantis.

Of course, since nobody knows where Atlantis was, it's anyone's guess how humid it was In my pet theory, though, Atlantis was in a place which is indeed famous for its humidity, namely Britain.

I bloody wish it was humid right now. We've had the driest and sunniest spring in about a century in England. Almost no rain for three months now and everything is bone dry. Large swathes of England have had 20%-30% of normal spring rainfall according to the Met Office. I'm spending what should be planting season watering everything... and farmers are talking about crop failures.

Tomorrow, rain is forecast. I'm really crossing my fingers.

You can see the rainfall anomaly here. Try looking at May 2020 rainfall anomaly... almost all of England is in the 20% band.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/c ... omaly-maps

The famous humidity of Britain is largely to a comparison with France or maybe Italy AFAICT. If you compare to Scandinavia, Japan, or most anywhere tropical or subtropical, it would be considered the drier.

Indeed, the British Isles are not much more humid than other parts of northern Europe, it is more that the precipitations are more evenly distributed over time: it is very often foggy or a bit rainy, so there are not many sunny days, but on the other hand, torrents are uncommon. And Japan is probably much more humid than Britain.

Richard W wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:25 pm

alynnidalar wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:14 pm Given that according to legend, Atlantis is currently at the bottom of a body of water... it's probably pretty darn humid.

Technically, I think it isn't. If humidity is the amount of water vapour in the ambient fluid, I suspect it isn't.

Back when I was unsuccessfully trying to study meteorology, I sometimes found it interesting how sometimes, my professors and textbooks would treat water vapour as the "standard" form of H2O, and liquid water and as as the non-standard forms. As in, "water vapour occurs naturally in the atmosphere in all three phases, gaseous, liquid, and solid".

I've got the impression that milk and drinks containing milk or dairy products somehow don't quench thirst as well as a similar amount of a drink that doesn't contain milk. Is there any physiological base for that? If so, what is it?

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:37 amI've got the impression that milk and drinks containing milk or dairy products somehow don't quench thirst as well as a similar amount of a drink that doesn't contain milk. Is there any physiological base for that? If so, what is it?

Don't Germans swear by buttermilk as a thirst-quencher?

In a way, this is really good news:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52922313
Coronavirus: Want to sell a home? Make the garden look nice

It seems that now the garden is the most desired feature in a house, outranking previous favourites like kitchens.

People should appreciate the outdoors more. Study after study has shown that nature and greenery is good for physical and mental health. The main problem is that our urban environment doesn't supply enough of the good stuff. Too many apartment blocks don't even have decent communal gardens, and new build houses often have gardens the size of postage stamps so developers can sell as many houses as possible. Many streets don't even have public greenery like trees. Greenery and sufficient green space should be a much bigger requirement for planning permission and a bigger priority for local authorities than they are now.

And then there's the school of architecture - apparently not that common anymore, but still immortalized by all the things built during its heyday - that believed that some patches of grass in an otherwise drab and grim environment counted as sufficient greenery.

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:23 pm And then there's the school of architecture - apparently not that common anymore, but still immortalized by all the things built during its heyday - that believed that some patches of grass in an otherwise drab and grim environment counted as sufficient greenery.

Perfectly flat, close-cut lawns are just sad. That kind of lawn isn't even tamed nature, it's a carpet / green desert. A lot of public parks are a bit sad in the UK for the same reason. The typical public park where I live contains:

1. A scattering of large, old trees
2. Grass kept bowling green short almost everywhere else
3. Maybe the odd corner where a few shrubs have been planted

They could be made more beautiful and take less work after establishment if parts were managed as a traditional meadow and cut infrequently, allowing long grass and flowers to grow. I'm not saying that plenty of space shouldn't be left for people to picnic or play football, but does the whole place have to mowed to within an inch of its life?

Sorry to bring everyone down, but there's been more in the news about the possibility of annexation of the Jordan Valley. To my foreign ears Netanyahu's plan sounds like a lot of talk and little else, the sort of thing politicians love to say to rile people up with no follow-through. But we have people here with far more knowledge of Israeli politics than me. Does anyone think that Netanyahu might actually push the big red button?

Netanyahu generally seems to be a more-bark-than-bite type, but I wouldn't bet anything on any decision he might make.

Ok, perhaps I shouldn't have responded here. There's already a Middle East Conflict thread:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=321

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=321&start=80

and an "Elections in various countries" thread:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38&start=480