Zompist Bboard Again

• [æ] > [ia];
• [ɛː] > [ɜː] before [r], but this is blocked by a preceding [j], in which case [jɛː] > [jaː];
• Diphthongisation of long vowels: [iː ɜː eː aː ɑː uː yː æː] > [ɛɪ ɜʊ iɛ ɛɑ ɑʊ ɘʊ ɛʏ ɘɪ];
• Plural forms of masculine nouns analogically become -as; ǽdelinges shifts in pronunciation, but not orthographically;
• Dative case endings are lost after prepositions; shifting tágiem back to tágas; also shifting zá to zás;
• Inanimate nouns shift to have plurals in -n, shifting the above to tágan;
• The orthography is beginning to fossilise, however terminal schwa that became [ɑ] is respelled a; the entire loss of [æ], and scribal influences from the continent, result in the respelling of [ia ɘɪ] from [æ æː] as ia oi; [ʃ] was spelled si~sj, but this has begun to ligaturise as something like ſ when non-uppercase (where si~sj is still used); hard [c~k] before front vowels comes to be spelled with k, to disambiguate from [tʃ]; hyphens are lost from most compounds.
• Retroactively emended modern "w" to the runic Wynn (ƿ); only a single word is affected;
• Retroactively emended modern "g" to Yogh (Ȝ ȝ) where pronounced [ʒ]; continental "g" is used as an unambiguous [g].

Fiath!

Lo!

ƿí

we

Ȝéarténas

spear-Dane.GEN.PL

‖

in

in

Ȝiéartagan

yore-days.DAT

Sjút‐Kýningas

king.GEN.PL

‖

Zrym

glory.NOM

ȝiefrýnen,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

Cý

how

ſás

those.NOM

Oideliȝgias

prince.NOM.PL

‖

Éien

bravery.ACC.PL

frémeten.

do.PL.PRET

/ˈfiatʰ ɥei ˈʒɜʊrˌtiɛ.nɑs | in ˈʒjɛɑrˌtɑʊ.gɑn ‖
ˈʃɘʊtˌcɛʏː.niŋ.ɡɑs | ˈsrym ʒji.ˈfrɛʏ.nɛ ‖
ˈtʃɛʏ ʃɑʊs ˈɘɪ.dɛ.liŋ.ʒjɑs | ˈɛɪ.jɛn ˈfriɛ.mɛ.tɛ/

Lo! We of Spear-Danes in days of yore,
of the fame of the kings, have heard,
how those nobles did great deeds.

1. Aspiration is lost.
2. Non-syllabic /i/ merges with /j/ before another vowel and with /ɪ/ after another vowel.
3. /j/ elides after /ʒ/.
4. The diphthongs /ɛɑ ɛʏː/ become /ɛɪ.jɑ ɛʏ/.
5. Word-medial coda obstruents assimilate in place of articulation to following obstruents.
6. The spelling undergoes a minor regularization.

Fiat!

Lo!

ƿí

we

Ȝéarténas

spear-Dane.GEN.PL

‖

in

in

Ȝéartagan

yore-days.DAT

Sjút‐Kýningas

king.GEN.PL

‖

Zrym

glory.NOM

ȝefrýnen,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

Cý

how

ſás

those.NOM

Oidelinȝas

prince.NOM.PL

‖

Éien

bravery.ACC.PL

frémeten.

do.PL.PRET

/ˈfjat ɥeɪ ˈʒɜʊrˌtjɛ.nɑs | in ˈʒɛɪ.jɑrˌtɑʊ.gɑn ‖
ˈʃɘʊcˌcɛʏ.niŋ.ɡɑs | ˈsrym ʒi.ˈfrɛʏ.nɛ ‖
ˈtʃɛʏ ʃɑʊs ˈɘɪ.dɛ.lin.ʒɑs | ˈɛɪ.jɛn ˈfrjɛ.mɛ.tɛ/

Lo! We of Spear-Danes in days of yore,
of the fame of the kings, have heard,
how those nobles did great deeds.

• [fj frj] > [çj]; [fr] > [xr]
• [ɜʊ] merges with [ɘʊ]
• Unstressed short vowels before coda consonants become schwa; [ɑʊ] merges with [ɘʊ] in unstressed words;
• Insertion of definite article before Ȝéarténas and Ȝéartagan;
• Gender and case appear to be undergoing some form of collapse, with plurals now indicating animate (-s) and inanimate (-n); the accusative plural ending of Éien is lost, but the plural Éin is still used;
• Various grammatical changes:
  • Case and number marking is lost from the definite articles;
  • The preposition tó (pronounced [twə]) has become an prenominal accusative marker;
  • The preposition ó (pronounced [wə]) has roughly the function of English "of", and replaces all uses of the Genitive;
  • The use of the definite article more broadly expands.
• This being presumably the Alternate Timeline Middle English, the introduction of printing forces several orthographic reforms:
  • The spelling sj at first replaced the long-s in most instances, though sc before e, i, y, or scj elsewhere later emerged owing to ambiguities in handwriting, under the influence of some dialectal conventions, and also Late Latin.
  • The spelling ƿ is often replaced by u, typeset here as v to avoid ambiguity;
  • The spelling Ȝ is usually replaced by gj, or g before e, i, y; hard-g is often spelled "gh", again under the partial influence of Late Latin; a competing orthography replaces Ȝ with z, and earlier z with s.
  • The spelling k is usually replaced by ch, also under the influence of Late Latin; "ch" also becomes a common spelling of k in words believed, whether correctly or no, to have a classical origin (however none appear here); however in the competing orthography, [k] instead becomes regularly represented with k regardless of etymology;

Orthography 1 (More common in the increasingly prominent London dialect):

Fiat!

Lo!

ví

we

ó

GENITIVE

scjá

DEFINITE-ARTICLE

Gjéarténas

spear-Dane.PL

‖

in

in

scjá

DEFINITE-ARTICLE

Gjéartagan

yore-days

Ó

GENITIVE

Scjút‐Chýningas

king.PL

‖

tó

ACCUSATIVE

scjá

DEFINITE-ARTICLE

Zrym

glory.NOM

gefrýnen,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

Cý

how

scjá

those.NOM

Oidelingjas

prince.NOM.PL

‖

tó

ACCUSATIVE

Éin

bravery.PL

frémeten.

do.PL.PRET

Orthography 2 (More common in the still prestigious East Saxon dialect):

Fiat!

Lo!

ví

we

ó

GENITIVE

scjá

DEFINITE-ARTICLE

Zéarténas

spear-Dane.PL

‖

in

in

scjá

DEFINITE-ARTICLE

Zéartagan

yore-days

Ó

GENITIVE

Scjút‐Kýningas

king.PL

‖

tó

ACCUSATIVE

scjá

DEFINITE-ARTICLE

Srym

glory.NOM

zefrýnen,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

Cý

how

scjá

those.NOM

Oidelinzas

prince.NOM.PL

‖

tó

ACCUSATIVE

Éin

bravery.PL

frémeten.

do.PL.PRET

[ˈfjat ɥeɪ wə ʃɘʊ ˈʒɘʊrˌtjɛ.nəs | in ʃɘʊ ˈʒɛɪ.jərˌtɑʊ.gən ‖
wə ˈʃɘʊcˌcɛʏ.niŋ.ɡəs | twə ʃɘʊ ˈsrym ʒi.ˈxrɛʏ.nɛ ‖
ˈtʃɛʏ ʃɘʊs ˈɘɪ.dɛ.lin.ʒəs | twə ˈɛɪn ˈçjɛ.mɛ.tɛ]

Lo! We of Spear-Danes in days of yore,
of the fame of the kings, have heard,
how those nobles did great deeds.

(0. Correct missing instance of [fj frj] > [çj])

1. ɥ → w
2. tj, c → tʃ
3. Genitive [wə], definite [ʃɘʊ] and accusative [twə] cliticise, with minor phonetic reduction
4. ʒ çj → j
5. r → ə / C_
6. ɘ → ə (including diphthongs)
7. London orthography becomes standard

I’d like to do some grammatical changes also, but I’m not familiar enough with Old English grammar to do so.

Fiat!

Lo!

ví

we

ó

GENITIVE

scjá

DEFINITE-ARTICLE

Gjéarténas

spear-Dane.PL

‖

in

in

scjá

DEFINITE-ARTICLE

Gjéartagan

yore-days

Ó

GENITIVE

Scjút‐Chýningas

king.PL

‖

tó

ACCUSATIVE

scjá

DEFINITE-ARTICLE

Zrym

glory.NOM

gefrýnen,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

Cý

how

scjá

those.NOM

Oidelingjas

prince.NOM.PL

‖

tó

ACCUSATIVE

Éin

bravery.PL

frémeten.

do.PL.PRET

[ˈjat weɪ ə‿ʃə‿ˈjəʊrˌtʃɛ.nəs | in ʃə‿ˈjɛɪ.jərˌtɑʊ.ɡən ‖
ə‿ˈʃəʊˌtʃɛʏ.niŋ.ɡəs | tɵ‿ʃə‿ˈsəym ji.ˈxəɛʏ.nɛ ‖
ˈtʃɛʏ ʃəʊs ˈəɪ.dɛ.lin.jəs | tɵ‿ˈɛɪn ˈjɛ.mɛ.tɛ]

1. ɑʊ → ɑː / _N
2. ɑʊ → ɔː / else
3. ɛɪ → æɪ
4. a → æ / ! _N
5. {p,b}ən {t,d}ən {k,g}ən → ʔm̩ ʔn̩ ʔŋ̩ / _#
6. ə{r, l, n, m} → r̩ l̩ n̩ m̩
7. əɪ əʊ → ɑɪ ɑʊ
8. w → v
9. Monosyllabic articles clitisises to it's noun as a consonant, or as the syllable when the noun begins with an alveolar consonant.

Fiat!

Lo!

ví

we

ó

GENITIVE

scj'gjéarténas

DEFINITE-ARTICLE=spear-Dane.PL

‖

‖

in

in

scj'gjrtagn

DEFINITE-ARTICLE=yore-days

Ó

GENITIVE

Scjút‐Chýningas

king.PL

‖

‖

tó

ACCUSATIVE

scjá'zrym

DEFINITE-ARTICLE=glory.NOM

gefrýnen,

hear_about.PL.PRET.

Cý

how

scjá

those.NOM

Oidelingjas

prince.NOM.PL

‖

‖

tó

ACCUSATIVE

Éin

bravery.PL

frémeten.

do.PL.PRET

[ˈjæt veɪ‿ə‿ˈʃjɑʊrˌtʃɛ.nəs | in ˈʃjæɪ.jr̩ˌtɔː.ʔŋ̩ ‖
ə‿ˈʃɑʊˌtʃɛʏ.niŋ.ɡəs | tɵ ʃəˈsəym ji.ˈxəɛʏ.nɛ ‖
ˈtʃɛʏ ʃɑʊs ˈɑɪ.dɛ.lin.jəs | tɵ‿ˈæɪn ˈjɛ.mɛ.tɛ]

Orthography changes to represent syllabic consonants and article clitics.

Personally I'd like to see English evolving in the direction of Irish gramatically and phonologucally

• Let's have a great vowel shift!
  • [ə ɑ r̩ ʔ] > [ɐ], blocked by schwa preceding a front vowel;
  • [æ æɪ] > [ɛ ɛː], [ə] before front vowels in diphthongs and triphthongs also becomes [ɛ]; a sequence [ɛɛ] becomes [iɛ]
  • [ɛy eʏ] merge with [ɛʏ]
  • [eɪ] > [eː], short [ɛ] > [e̞];
  • [ɐʊ ɔː ɛʏ ɐɪ] > [ɔː oː joː ɐː], short [ɵ] > [o̞]
• Resulting [j] shifts preceding [s ʃ tʃ] > [ɕi ɕi c͡ɕi], other occurrences of [s ʃ tʃ] > [t͡s ʂ ʈ͡ʂ], except [s] > [t͡s] does not occur terminally; [x] > [ç] before [i j]
• Loss of [j] before [i]
• Some resyllabification, [nj] > [ɲ]
• Loss of nasal codas with nasalisation of preceding vowels
• Terminal vowels eject semivowels into the beginning of a subsequent word if that word begins with a vowel;
• A few minor orthographic changes:
  • The genitive particle tends to be spelled a, and the accusative particle to;
  • The definite article is spelled sc' before e, i, j, y and scj' or scja elsewhere;
  • [c͡ɕ(i) ɕ(i)] are usually spelled tj stj, except the spelling of the definite article is unaffected;
  • A few other changes to represent the nasal vowels more accurately.

Fiat!

Lo!

ví

we

a

GENITIVE

sc' Jéarténas

DEFINITE-ARTICLE=spear-Dane.PL

‖

‖

in

in

sc' Jartáwan

DEFINITE-ARTICLE=yore-days

A

GENITIVE

Scjút‐Tjýningas

king.PL

‖

‖

to

ACCUSATIVE

scja Srym

DEFINITE-ARTICLE=glory.NOM

iefrýne

hear_about.PL.PRET.

,

Tjý

how

scja

those.NOM

Oidelinjas

prince.NOM.PL

‖

‖

to

ACCUSATIVE

Éin

bravery.PL

frémeten.

do.PL.PRET

[ˈjɛt veː‿jɐ‿ˈɕiɔːrˌʈ͡ʂɛ.nɐs | in ˈɕiɛː.jɐˌtɔː.wɐ̃ ‖
ɐ‿ˈʂɔːˌc͡ɕioː.nĩ.ɡɐs | to̞ ʂɐˈɕiõːm i.ˈçi'joː.nɛ ‖
ˈc͡ɕioː ʂɔː ˈɐː.dɛ.li.ɲɐs | to̞‿wˈɛ̃ːn ˈjɛ.mɛ.tɛ]

This is probably the language in which alternate-history Shakespeare would've written his plays.

What's next? Can be in a conlang.

It it feasible for such changes to take place over roughly 600 years? IMHO it's pretty extreme change from the original text

Who wants a tonal Romlang?

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:47 am It it feasible for such changes to take place over roughly 600 years? IMHO it's pretty extreme change from the original text

Classical Latin to Old French is also pretty extreme. This language is also much more lexically conservative than our English — I expect there are probably more than a few Latin borrowings in it now, but none appear in this text (some of the words in it are probably also pretty archaic, but are unchanged because it's part of a famous poem).

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:16 am

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:47 am It it feasible for such changes to take place over roughly 600 years? IMHO it's pretty extreme change from the original text

Classical Latin to Old French is also pretty extreme. This language is also much more lexically conservative than our English — I expect there are probably more than a few Latin borrowings in it now, but none appear in this text (some of the words in it are probably also pretty archaic, but are unchanged because it's part of a famous poem).

I was a bit wrong
Beowulf is dated at c. 700-750 AD so it's more like 800 years

Who wants Proto Romance?

Ca 500 AD

Omnes omines nascunt liberi ed equales in dignitate ed derectos. Sunt dotati de ratione ed anima ed debent agire inter se como fratres.

IPA transcription
/ɔmnes ɔːmɪnes naskʊnt liːβeri eð ͜ eku̯aːles ɪn dɪɲɲɪtaːte ed ͜ derektos. sʊnt dotaːti de ratsʲoːne eð ͜ aːnɪma ed ͜ deːβent aɣiːre ɪnter seː komo fraːtres/

Omniglot has this nice little passage. Very legible for speakers of modern Romance languages and easy to introduce grammatical changes into.

• Coda [m n nt r k d s] > [u̯ a̯ a̯ a̯ i̯ i̯ i̯]
• [ɔː iː aː oː eː] > [u̯ɛ ɛi̯ au̯ u̯o i̯ɛ]
• [t] before front vowels, and [t͡sʲ], become [t͡ʃ], [s d] under the same circumstances become [ʃ dʒ]
• Analogical spelling of coda [i̯] as s becomes common, as does the spelling of the diphthongised long vowels phonetically

Omnes uemines nascut leiberi es equaules in diggnitaute es derestos. Sun dotauti de razuone es aumima es dieben aghiere inten sie como frautres.
[ɔu̯nei̯ u̯ɛmɪnei̯ nai̯kʊa̯ lɛi̯βeri ei̯ ͜ eku̯au̯lei̯ ɪn dʒɪɲɲɪtau̯te ei̯ d͡ʒerei̯toi̯. sʊa̯ dotau̯t͡ʃi d͡ʒe rat͡ʃu̯one ei̯ ͜ jau̯nɪma ei̯ d͡ʒi̯ɛβea̯ aɣi̯ɛre ɪa̯tea̯ ʃi̯ɛ komo frau̯trei̯]

1. A standard syllabification and stress pattern come to be. Most words get penultimate stress, but some words get antepenultimate stress instead.
2. /ʊa̯ ea̯ ɪa̯/ > /u̯a i̯a i̯a/
3. /i̯ u̯/ come to be perceived as semivowels /j w/ prevocalically; then they coalesce with preceding velars respectively into palatal and labialized velar consonants. /j/ also coalesces with a preceding /t d s/ into /t͡ʃ ʃ d͡ʒ/; /w/, however, continues to be separately articulated after a preceding coronal.
4. /j/ elides after postalveolars.
5. Other minor IPA transcription changes occur that have insignificant effect on the actual pronunciation.

Omnes uemines nascut leiberi es equaules in diggnitaute es derestos. Sun dotauti de razuone es aumima es dieben aghiere inten sie como frautres.
[ˈɔu̯.nei̯ ˈwɛ.mɪ.nei̯ ˈnai̯.kʷa ˈlɛi̯.βe.ri e ͜ jeˈkʷau̯.lei̯ ɪn d͡ʒɪɲ.ɲɪˈtau̯.te ei̯ d͡ʒeˈrei̯.toi̯. swa doˈtau̯.t͡ʃi d͡ʒe raˈt͡ʃwo.ne e ͜ jau̯ˈnɪ.ma ei̯ d͡ʒɛˈβja aˈʝɛ.re jaˈtja ʃɛ ˈko.mo ˈfrau̯.trei̯]

1. Diphtongs monophtongize with a compensatory lengthening of the vowel
2. Word order switches to VSO
3. Orthography undergoes a slight reform

Nascut omne uemine leberi es equale in diggnitate es deresto. Sun dotati de razuone es anima es dieben aghiere inter sie como fratre.
[ˈna:.kʷa ˈɔu̯.ne: ˈwɛ.mɪ.ne: ˈlɛ:.βe.ri e ͜ jeˈkʷa:.le: ɪn d͡ʒɪɲ.ɲɪˈta:.te e: d͡ʒeˈre:.to:]
[swa doˈta:.t͡ʃi d͡ʒe raˈt͡ʃwo.ne e ͜ ja:ˈnɪ.ma e: d͡ʒɛˈβja aˈʝɛ.re jaˈtja ʃɛˈko.mo ˈfra:.tre:]

• [ɪ aː e eː ɔu̯] > [ɛ ɛː i iː uː]
• Assibilation of [ti tj] > [si sj]
• Loss of contrastive vowel length: vowels in unchecked stressed syllables that are already long remain so, but those that are short have the syllable checked by a duplicate of the following consonant; all other long vowels shorten; degimination occurs after non-stressed vowels
• [ʝ j] > [ʒ] (except where an excrescence of a preceding vowel across a morpheme boundary or following a consonant), [ɲ] > [j]
• Loss of labialisation
• Further orthographic developments
  • Vowel + S, where representing a long vowel, becomes a vowel marked with a circumflex;
  • The vowel letters are emended to reflect pronunciation better, following their Latin values;

Nêcan ûni uemmeni lêbiri î iquêli in dignitêsi î dedîto. San dotêti de razoni î ienemma î debian agiere iasiar se commo frêtri.
[ˈnɛ:.ka ˈuː.ni ˈwɛm.mɛ.ni ˈlɛ:.βi.ri iː ͜ jiˈkɛ:.li ɪn d͡ʒɛ.jɛˈtɛ:.si iː d͡ʒeˈʒi:.to || sa doˈtɛ:.t͡ʃi d͡ʒi raˈt͡ʃo.ni͜ ji ͜ jɛˈnɛm.ma i: d͡ʒɛˈβja aˈʒɛr.re jaˈsjaː ʃɛˈkom.mo ˈfrɛ:.tri]

- rhotacism of intervocalic [n]>[r]
- then [r]>[l]
- [β]>[v]>[w]

Nêcan ûni uemmeni lêbiri î iquêli in dignitêsi î dedîto. San dotêti de razoni î ienemma î debian agiere iasiar se commo frêtri.
[ˈnɛ:.ka ˈuː.li ˈwɛm.mɛ.li ˈlɛ:.wi.ri iː ͜ jiˈkɛ:.li ɪn d͡ʒɛ.jɛˈtɛ:.si iː d͡ʒeˈʒi:.to || sa doˈtɛ:.t͡ʃi d͡ʒi raˈt͡ʃo.li͜ ji ͜ jɛˈlɛm.ma i: d͡ʒɛˈwja aˈʒɛr.re jaˈsjaː ʃɛˈkom.mo ˈfrɛ:.tri]

Wiki has a nice Akkadian passage. Who is for it?

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:26 am Wiki has a nice Akkadian passage. Who is for it?

Sure

StrangerCoug wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:29 am

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:26 am Wiki has a nice Akkadian passage. Who is for it?

Sure

Not yet. Do 5-6 rounds with Proto Romance.

The passage has a gloss but is hard to copypaste from wiki. It is also rather long https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadia ... ample_text

Added a compulsory pronoun ipsas to the text. Guys, apply the necessary phonetic and orthographic changes to it

Nêcan (ipsas) ûni uemmeni lêbiri î iquêli in dignitêsi î dedîto. San (ipsas) dotêti de razoni î ienemma î debian agiere iasiar se commo frêtri.
[ˈnɛ:.ka (ipsa:s) ˈuː.li ˈwɛm.mɛ.li ˈlɛ:.wi.ri iː ͜ jiˈkɛ:.li ɪn d͡ʒɛ.jɛˈtɛ:.si iː d͡ʒeˈʒi:.to || sa (ipsa:s) doˈtɛ:.t͡ʃi d͡ʒi raˈt͡ʃo.li͜ ji ͜ jɛˈlɛm.ma i: d͡ʒɛˈwja aˈʒɛr.re jaˈsjaː ʃɛˈkom.mo ˈfrɛ:.tri]