Zompist Bboard Again

Frislander wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:34 pm

Halian wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:45 pm Her Majesty must have Opinions about all of this, so absolute monarchy when

I have actually expressed this opinion already tonight as it happens. Only problem is that'd probably result in the UK being kicked out, because we'd be breaking the democracy criterion for EU membership.

Would we? If it could be argued that the Queen was exercising a right to solve a deadlock crisis within Parliament, would that be much different than, say, any other head of state exercising a similar right, especially if it could be said to be constitutional? I know the Monarch isn't elected, but she is, as are the other monarchs in Europe, bound by a constitution. If the right for her to exercise that power exists at all, and yet we were allowed to enter the EU, then surely that right remains intact?

Oh for the ever-loving hell! I just found out my brother voted to leave for "bants" and "to see what would happen"... I am... severely disappointed. Not in his decision to vote, but for the lack of thought involved. *le sigh*

Has anyone told Parliament that, if they can't actually pass a proposal, they get No Deal?

Yes. They know. To be honest we seem closer to a second referendum than ever before, although I agree the second referendum option is compatible with everything else, so should not have been offered as an "alternative." Still since all the substantive alternatives failed, May's deal will fail again - always assuming there are substantial changes to the offering so Bercow will allow it to be put (personally I think a cunning plan by Bercow given that the EU won't renegotiate to encourage a referendum as that substantial change) - we're on indicative votes again on Monday and I think referendum ultimately wins.

Or we could kick the can down the road....

I see Meaningful Vote Three will be held tomorrow.

So if May's deal passes, she will resign, and will presumably therefore have nothing more to do with her own deal. But if May's deal doesn't pass, she will not resign, and will thus be stuck with something that isn't her own deal.

...

Sounds about par for the course.

alynnidalar wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:26 pm So if May's deal passes, she will resign, and will presumably therefore have nothing more to do with her own deal. But if May's deal doesn't pass, she will not resign, and will thus be stuck with something that isn't her own deal.

...

Sounds about par for the course.

I think the idea is that May has so little support that people are actually willing to vote for her proposal just to get her out of the way... whether this is true, I do not know.

Best description yet: "she fell on her sword and missed".

"At least 10 cabinet ministers considering prime ministerial bids"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ves-tories

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:39 pm He's from the right wing of a right-wing political party. Is there ever a time when he's not consumed with a ferocious rage?

I assume while reminiscing about The Good Old Days, when men were men etc., before being reminded about the uppity women and coloureds and gays that ruined it.

Baker also expressed his support for constitutional democracy in an appropriately humble fashion, saying of Parliament: "I could tear this place down and bulldoze it into a river!"

To be fair, though, I don't think he's ever been accused of any particular racism, and his vote against gay marriage was actually a vote against the idea of the state defining (or redefining) marriage at all (he has no problem with gay people saying they're married, he just doesn't think the government should have an official opinion on whether they are or not (or whether anyone else is, for that matter)). He is apparently a Christian, but he's not really from the old-school racist-sexist-Tory faction - he's more just a libertarian with conservative trappings, AIUI.


Fun moment: after Baker delivered his speech to the ERG (or "The Spartans" as they apparently call themselves internally), JRM hugged him... before admitting that in general "we are not a hugging group".

The tiggers are probably a hugging group, though. They were doing a Mexican wave in parliament during the indicative votes. A very small mexican wave, admittedly...

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:23 pm "At least 10 cabinet ministers considering prime ministerial bids"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ves-tories

That's the other problem. It's all very well May resigning to allow someone new to take over. But it means that from now until her exit is just tory leadership campaign - right at the moment when it might be helpful to have someone paying attention to national issues!

The Tiggers make me think of Winnie the Pooh - I am not sure if this is intentional or not.

Raab just said that "anger is not a strategy". Fair point, but pretty weird for a Tory Brexiteer of all people to say that.

After general elections in the UK, are there classes or workshops or something for newly elected MPs where they can learn how to make the sounds that UK MPs who aren't currently speaking make during debates?

So, will the UK leave the EU at the start or at the end of April 12th?

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:44 am So, will the UK leave the EU at the start or at the end of April 12th?

I don't think so - not even at 23.00 on 12 April.

What would happen if the UK found itself in the backstop, and then renounced the agreement? Would the EU oblige us to comply at gunpoint? Would compensation be too onerous? I'm just wondering if we could agree with a promise of appropriate compensation for unilateral withdrawal.

May's deal failed for the third time, 344-286.

Next week should be interesting.

The Brexiteers sure seem set on leading their nation to utter ruin...

The problem here is that this is precisely the sort of thing the roman republic had the office of dictator for, which may applied for, but she did it in a manner so offensive to the senate parliament that she was refused. So now they're stuck in diplomacy-by-committee, where the members of the committee are dispatched by around five different factions with five different positions that are mutually incompatible and that they fear being punished for deviating from.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:17 pm The Brexiteers sure seem set on leading their nation to utter ruin...

I'd be highly sympathetic to their cause but it's not like the newly independent British government will not just be a worse version of EU states, so, yeah, why bother.

zompist wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:08 pm May's deal failed for the third time, 344-286.

Next week should be interesting.

I think that was merely an 'indicative vote' - had it passed, Brexit would have been delayed until 22 May, but the deal would not have been ratified, as the vote didn’t include the 'political statement', so technically it wasn't MV3! Terminologically interesting times!

Extrapolating the numbers, it should pass next time, by a margin of about 326-304. However, extrapolation is not valid.