Zompist Bboard Again

zompist wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:18 am ... the (2) meaning is a little odd because the book should change definiteness...

I think I know what you mean, but I think it seemingly can be unnecessary. E g.
" I have read a book again this month. I've read it three times. It's book II of the Harry Potter series."

(Well, the re-reading option would not imply that I first read it last month.)

I think you meant I should say "I read the book last month before"? If so, I agree with you.

Richard W wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:54 am Neither. I do get 3 meanings out of it, but they are:

• I don't usually read books, but having read one recently, I read a book this month.
• This month, I read a book that I had read before.
• I don't usually read books, but I have read books. I read a book this month.
  
  The different meanings result in differences in intonation.
  
  The more strained word order 'I read a book this month again' eliminates the second meaning for me.

You must be a poet, Richard. Your 1st and 3rd meanings are indeed very delicate thpughts. I can't understand them clearly yet even now you've explained, let alone they've never come to me.

azhong wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:17 am

Richard W wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:54 am Neither. I do get 3 meanings out of it, but they are:

• I don't usually read books, but having read one recently, I read a book this month.
• This month, I read a book that I had read before.
• I don't usually read books, but I have read books. I read a book this month.
  
  The different meanings result in differences in intonation.
  
  The more strained word order 'I read a book this month again' eliminates the second meaning for me.

You must be a poet, Richard. Your 1st and 3rd meanings are indeed very delicate thpughts. I can't understand them clearly yet even now you've explained, let alone they've never come to me.

I don’t think it has anything to do with poetry — I’d say I also naturally interpret it with those three meanings.

Then I have to ask seriously: what's the subtle differences between the first and the third meanings, please?

AFAIK, they both means something like, " l read little after l had left school. But l've started reading AGAIN recently and I read a book this month."

My interpretations:
1st sentence: The fact that I read a book this month proves that I started reading again.

3rd: I decided to read again. And I read a book this month.

Thank you.

P.S. an explanation to avoid unnecessary mistakes: By saying "poet" I was sincerely giving my praise.

azhong wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:27 pm Then I have to ask seriously: what's the subtle differences between the first and the third meanings, please?

It is admittedly a very subtle difference; in fact, re-reading Richard’s post, I must admit I’m not too sure myself what difference he was trying to get at. My best guess is:

‘I don't usually read books, but having read one recently, I read a book this month.’ — Usually, I don’t read books. Recently, I read a book (presumably for the first time in a while). This month, I read another.
‘I don't usually read books, but I have read books. I read a book this month.’ — Usually, I don’t read books. However, in the past I have read books. This month, I read another book for the first time in a while.

Would it be bad of me to chime in and say I my instinctual interpretation for the original sentence was, "I reread a book this month." Context would probably determine a lot with this phrase, however, and any of the other meanings put forward could also be the case.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:42 pm Would it be bad of me to chime in and say I my instinctual interpretation for the original sentence was, "I reread a book this month." Context would probably determine a lot with this phrase, however, and any of the other meanings put forward could also be the case.

You are not the only nativer speaker to interpret it as "to re-read the same book". And that's why I asked my question here after my reflect on it. (And for me I need also to learn more about the position of "again".)

bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:48 pm

azhong wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:27 pm Then I have to ask seriously: what's the subtle differences between the first and the third meanings, please?

It is admittedly a very subtle difference; in fact, re-reading Richard’s post, I must admit I’m not too sure myself what difference he was trying to get at. My best guess is:

‘I don't usually read books, but having read one recently, I read a book this month.’ — Usually, I don’t read books. Recently, I read a book (presumably for the first time in a while). This month, I read another.
‘I don't usually read books, but I have read books. I read a book this month.’ — Usually, I don’t read books. However, in the past I have read books. This month, I read another book for the first time in a while.

Replace 'another' by 'a'. Adding 'another' makes the interpretation too specific. It did occur to me that there were yet other interpretations of this sentence, but they were specific cases of ones I had already given.

Ignoring matters of aspect (a book can be read a bit at a time over a very long time), the sentence is a condensation of two or more instances of the form "I read book X at time Y". That much is signalled by the use of the word again. The use of that word suggests that it is important. Unfortunately, I am not confident about the rules of unpacking this when 'again' and 'this month' are applied; moreover, the unpacking of natural language quantifiers seems to vary from person to person, possibly with their training. (Might mathematicians be more picky in their interpretation?)

Richard W wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:34 am ...a book can be read a bit at a time over a very long time...

Interesting and inspiring. This thought didn't come to me, either. Now I've seen it's not just a task as simple as placing "again" in a better place.

Back to the original sentence I wanted to make, it's something very simple: The "I" reads books and introduces them to a group of people regularly. So, at the moment of having another lecture (or speech?), he starts by saying something like ,

Last month l finished reading a book. This month I've finished reading another book, which I'm going to introduce now.

And then I thought the first sentence can be just replaced with an "again".

Q: Is the sentence above natural and clear enough? Furthermore, where should I add "again"? "This month again", " l've finished reading another book again" or some other positions? Or do both the positions I've mentioned just convey the same meaning?

Thank you.

I don't know if it helps, but the first sentence can be better merged into the second sentence as

"This month I['ve] finished reading yet another book, which I'm going to introduce now."

Using the perfect tense currently makes you sound like an American. The time when something happened is rarely part of the resultant current circumstances.

Richard W wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:01 pm ... the first sentence can be better merged into the second sentence as

"This month I['ve] finished reading yet another book, which I'm going to introduce now."

Thank you. Indeed, I didn't know very well how to use phrases like "yet another", "yet more", "yet again", etc. I've received yet another help from you.

Cambridge Dictionary wrote:Yet: used to add emphasis to words such as another and again, especially to show an increase in amount or the number of times something happens.
- Rachel bought yet another pair of shoes to add to her collection.
- I'm sorry to bother you yet again.
- He's given us yet more work to do.

azhong wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:09 am I've received yet another help from you.

Unfortunately, this isn’t correct, since ‘help’ is a mass noun, not a count noun. It would be better to say something like, for instance, I’ve received some more help from you — or if you want to stick with ‘yet another’, perhaps I’ve received yet another piece of advice from you (though that sounds a bit clunky to me).

I'd fix the countability issue with, "I've received yet more help from you."

Richard W wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:36 pm I'd fix the countability issue with, "I've received yet more help from you."

Yes, I agree that would be better.

Richard W wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:36 pm I'd fix the countability issue with, "I've received yet more help from you."

To me that is strictly-speaking grammatical, but just doesn't sound right to me for some reason.

I think I would cast it as, "You've helped me once again". The "receive" in there feels rather crufty.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:43 pm I think I would cast it as, "You've helped me once again". The "receive" in there feels rather crufty.

I find that to be much more idiomatic myself.

Q1: I think the sentence (I made) is grammatical?
1. In the spring I bought some books, but I didn't have time to read them until last month, when I picked one out and start reading it.

Q2: How about if I want to cut it into two shorter sentences? How about 2.2.1 and 2.2.2?
2.1 In the spring I bought some books, but I didn't have time to read them.
2.2.1 Not until last month did I become available, pick one out and start reading it.
2.2.2 It came only to last month when I became available, picked ... and started ...

Or is there still anything unnatural in these sentences? Thank you for your help.

Sentences 1, 2.1, and 2.2.1 are all fine for me (well, sentence 1 should have "started" instead of "start", but I don't think that's what you're asking about), but 2.2.2 doesn't work. You could say "It was only last month that I became available, picked one out, and started reading it."