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Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:52 pm
by Kuchigakatai
evmdbm wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:49 amDoes not mean that the nominative/absolutive are basically the same, but syncretic? Now let's extend it so that humans and proper names are tripartite so we overlap in the middle. Does that mean that nam = nominative (ie S), nama = accusative (ie O) and namu ergative (ie A)?

Is that how it would work? I suppose you couldn't leave O unmarked here, without marking S and A differently? But then you would have to have different suffixes in the middle than at either end, which I'm guessing wouldn't happen - or it would be difficult to explain how it happens
Yeah, I think that'd mean the nominative and the absolutive are syncretic. And that sounds like a reasonable way of making a tripartite declension in the middle of the hierarchy.

That is one way it could work, merging the nominative and the absolutive.

If you want to have the O of the tripartite declension unmarked, then why don't you merge the accusative and the absolutive? Is there something very unnatural about that? If you want to have the accusative unmarked, then I'm imagining you'd end up with the declensions:
- Pronominal: nominative em-i, accusative em
- Human: intransitive subject nam-i, transitive object nam, transitive subject nam-u
- Non-human: absolutive woc, ergative woc-u

(I used -i instead of -a to prevent confusion with your example that uses accusative -a.)



EDIT: Urgh. I deleted the second half of this post, because it wasn't answering the second group of questions at all. I forgot that the question was about split-S. Besides the mistake I made that akam chinjir corrects below.

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:15 pm
by akam chinjir
Ser wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:52 pm The vast, vast majority of ergative languages uses nominal case [...]
Selayarese has an ergative agreement pattern, and no case marking. So do the Mayan languages.

WALS reports 19 out of 380 languages in that chapter's sample having ergative agreement, and 32 out of 190 in that chapter's sample having ergative case-marking, with only 3 overlaps. I don't know how reliable those chapters are, but that doesn't seem like a vast majority.

Edit. And of course I forgot to mention the bit that was relevant to evmdbm's question: split- or fluid-S systems tend to be more common with agreement than with case, as bradrn has mentioned.

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:28 pm
by Kuchigakatai
akam chinjir wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:15 pmSelayarese has an ergative agreement pattern, and no case marking. So do the Mayan languages.

WALS reports 19 out of 380 languages in that chapter's sample having ergative agreement, and 32 out of 190 in that chapter's sample having ergative case-marking, with only 3 overlaps. I don't know how reliable those chapters are, but that doesn't seem like a vast majority.
Thanks! I don't know where I got that bad and inaccurate of an impression about case in ergative languages then.

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:01 pm
by bradrn
evmdbm wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:49 am So split ergativity gives me a headache. Let me explain why. Apologies if this is really basic, but I genuinely struggle a bit here.

Hypothetical language - Ergativish. Ergativish is a split ergative language with an animacy hierarchy and let's assume that the split is between humans and other animates - so accusative marking runs in through pronouns, Proper names and humans. Ergative marking runs in from the other side. For humans the nominative (ie S and A) is unmarked and let's say the accusative is marked by -a (so if man is nam in Ergativish, nam is the nominative form and nama the accusative. If we are talking about a cow (non-human animate) the absolutive (S and O) is unmarked. Ergative is marked by -u. So if cow = woc, woc is the absolutive and wocu the ergative.

Does not mean that the nominative/absolutive are basically the same, but syncretic?
All this sounds about right. This is actually a pretty typical system for this sort of split: nominative and absolutive are both unmarked, and ergative and accusative both get their own case-markers. (I was actually meaning to include this somewhere, but I forgot; I had better find a place to put it…)
Now let's extend it so that humans and proper names are tripartite so we overlap in the middle. Does that mean that nam = nominative (ie S), nama = accusative (ie O) and namu ergative (ie A)?

Is that how it would work? I suppose you couldn't leave O unmarked here, without marking S and A differently? But then you would have to have different suffixes in the middle than at either end, which I'm guessing wouldn't happen - or it would be difficult to explain how it happens
This sounds right as well. You have correctly understood that S is always unmarked in a tripartite system, while A and O are both marked. As you note, you couldn’t leave O unmarked without marking S and A differently. However, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘having different suffixes in the middle than at either end’ — I certainly don’t see anything implausible about such a system other than the fact that S generally gets the unmarked case.
Hypothetical Language 2: Absolutivish. Absolutivish is a Split S language. Depending on the verb it is either Nom/Acc or Erg/Abs. Have you got an example of how this gets marked on the verb, because I'm struggling a bit here. If fall is llaf in Absolutivish and S=A. I fall becomes I llaf-A, but if weep is peew in Absolutivish and S=O then I weep becomes I peew-O.

But what about transitives? I hit you (and hit is tiw in Absolutivish) how do you then mark this because A and O are marked the same way in the intransitive examples above. Do we get case marking on the pronouns here

I-Erg tiw you-Abs = I hit you

or is it still done on the verb in which case we need quite rigid word order? I tiw-A you means I hit you. You tiw-A I means you hit me. But can this not end up looking a bit like a Direct/Inverse system, so you can imagine I tiw-A you means I hit you, but I tiw-O you means you hit me?

Does the question even make sense?
I think you’re misunderstanding how active-stative systems work. Generally, active-stative systems use verbal agreement affixes rather than case markers (as both akam chinjir and I mentioned). There are two sets of affixes: one set is used for both A and S, while the other is used for both O and S — I suppose you could call these ‘nominative’ and ‘absolutive’. A transitive verb always gets one affix from the nominative set for its A argument, and one affix from the absolutive set for its O argument, while an intransitive verb can get an affix from either set depending on whether it’s S=A or S=O.

To illustrate, I’ll rewrite your examples:

I fall (S=A): I llaf-1s.NOM
I weep (S=O): I peew-1s.ABS
I hit you: I tiw-1s.NOM-2s.ABS you (assuming SVO word order, of course)

(Of course, as you briefly mention, it would be theoretically possible to use case markers as well: then the sentences would become ‘I-NOM llaf’, ‘I-ABS peew’, ‘I-NOM tiw you-ABS’. But no language is known to do this.)

Does this make sense?

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:17 pm
by akam chinjir
Ser wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:28 pm Thanks! I don't know where I got that bad and inaccurate of an impression about case in ergative languages then.
I actually don't know how reliable those WALS chapters are. In particular, I know in at least some cases (including Selayarese), the absolutive agreement bits have been argued to be clitics rather than true agreement (by Chomskyan lights, anyway), but that Siewierska (who did the alignment-of-person-marking chapter) doesn't try to draw distinctions like that, and really nothing like WALS is going to be drawing distinctions like that.

(But I happened to be reading about Mayan restrictions on extraction when I saw your post, so...)

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:39 pm
by bradrn
akam chinjir wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:17 pm
Ser wrote: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:28 pm Thanks! I don't know where I got that bad and inaccurate of an impression about case in ergative languages then.
I actually don't know how reliable those WALS chapters are. In particular, I know in at least some cases (including Selayarese), the absolutive agreement bits have been argued to be clitics rather than true agreement (by Chomskyan lights, anyway), but that Siewierska (who did the alignment-of-person-marking chapter) doesn't try to draw distinctions like that, and really nothing like WALS is going to be drawing distinctions like that.

(But I happened to be reading about Mayan restrictions on extraction when I saw your post, so...)
On reliability, my comment earlier was:
bradrn wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:18 pm … according to WALS … only 5% of a sample of 380 languages have ergative verbal agreement (https://wals.info/feature/100A#2/17.0/274.0, although I have a suspicion that this dataset under-represents areas which contain particularly many languages with ergative agreement).
In particular, there seem to be relatively few datapoints from Mayan languages, many of which have ergative verbal agreement. Also, that 5% number doesn’t include languages from the ‘active’ or ‘split’ categories; when those are included, it turns out that around 19% of languages have some sort of ergative verbal agreement.

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:59 am
by Richard W
bradrn wrote: Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:50 am I think your question is a bit ambiguous. Are you talking about this sort of system?

Code: Select all

animate (masculine/feminine) > inanimate (neuter)
────────────────────────────>|<──────────────────
acc marking                           erg marking
If so, then: yes, this is definitely plausible — it’s just a simple animacy-based split, albeit with the split being between animate and inanimate nouns rather than between pronouns and common nouns (which is more common).
Not just plausible, but attested in Hittite. (The ending is <-an-za>.)

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:21 pm
by bradrn
Richard W wrote: Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:59 am
bradrn wrote: Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:50 am I think your question is a bit ambiguous. Are you talking about this sort of system?

Code: Select all

animate (masculine/feminine) > inanimate (neuter)
────────────────────────────>|<──────────────────
acc marking                           erg marking
If so, then: yes, this is definitely plausible — it’s just a simple animacy-based split, albeit with the split being between animate and inanimate nouns rather than between pronouns and common nouns (which is more common).
Not just plausible, but attested in Hittite. (The ending is <-an-za>.)
Thanks! I was looking for an example of a split which isn’t between 2/3 or pronouns/nouns, so I think I’ll update my post on split ergativity to include this as well.

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:17 am
by evmdbm
I think you’re misunderstanding how active-stative systems work. Generally, active-stative systems use verbal agreement affixes rather than case markers (as both akam chinjir and I mentioned). There are two sets of affixes: one set is used for both A and S, while the other is used for both O and S — I suppose you could call these ‘nominative’ and ‘absolutive’. A transitive verb always gets one affix from the nominative set for its A argument, and one affix from the absolutive set for its O argument, while an intransitive verb can get an affix from either set depending on whether it’s S=A or S=O.

To illustrate, I’ll rewrite your examples:

I fall (S=A): I llaf-1s.NOM
I weep (S=O): I peew-1s.ABS
I hit you: I tiw-1s.NOM-2s.ABS you (assuming SVO word order, of course)
Ah. Light bulb moment! Yes that does make sense.

Follow on: could you have "I tiw-1s,ABS-2s.NOM you" to mean you hit me? Presumably word order could be more fluid and so long as the verbal affixes tell you what's going on you can have the agent and object in any order you like. Presumably also - and my example might break them! - you get rules about which affix goes where - a slot system in essence?

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:43 am
by bradrn
evmdbm wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:17 am
I think you’re misunderstanding how active-stative systems work. Generally, active-stative systems use verbal agreement affixes rather than case markers (as both akam chinjir and I mentioned). There are two sets of affixes: one set is used for both A and S, while the other is used for both O and S — I suppose you could call these ‘nominative’ and ‘absolutive’. A transitive verb always gets one affix from the nominative set for its A argument, and one affix from the absolutive set for its O argument, while an intransitive verb can get an affix from either set depending on whether it’s S=A or S=O.

To illustrate, I’ll rewrite your examples:

I fall (S=A): I llaf-1s.NOM
I weep (S=O): I peew-1s.ABS
I hit you: I tiw-1s.NOM-2s.ABS you (assuming SVO word order, of course)
Ah. Light bulb moment! Yes that does make sense.
I’m glad I could help!
Follow on: could you have "I tiw-1s,ABS-2s.NOM you" to mean you hit me? Presumably word order could be more fluid and so long as the verbal affixes tell you what's going on you can have the agent and object in any order you like. Presumably also - and my example might break them! - you get rules about which affix goes where - a slot system in essence?
Yes, of course you could have all of those. But unless I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying here, none what you’ve said is specific to active-stative systems — those things are found in most languages with verbal agreement.


(Oh, and there’s one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post: although I did say that ‘active-stative systems use verbal agreement affixes rather than case markers’, it’s certainly conceivable that there could be an active-stative system using case markers. That would look something like this:
I fall (S=A): I-NOM llaf
I weep (S=O): I-ABS peew
I hit you: I-NOM tiw you-ABS
There seems to be no natural language which uses such a system, but I just thought you might find it interesting now that you understand how active-stative systems work.)

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:12 am
by bradrn
Minor update: Based on the questions evmdbm asked, I’ve added a couple of edits to some previous posts. Thanks evmdbm for pointing out these gaps in my explanations!

On the post Split ergativity — Part 1, I added the following paragraph:
It may be useful to elaborate on exactly how [a split-S] system works. As we will see below, the majority of languages using a split-S system use verbal agreement affixes rather than case markers. A typical split-S system uses two sets of agreement affixes: one set of affixes is used for both S and A, while the other is used for both S and O. Using the names of the corresponding case markers, we might term the first set ‘nominative’, and the second set ‘absolutive’ (although curiously enough I actually don’t think I’ve seen those names used anywhere else). For a normal transitive verb, A is signalled using the nominative set and O is signalled using the absolutive set; for instance, ‘I hit you’ would be expressed as some variant of ‘hit-1s.NOM-2s.ABS’ (although of course the affixes could be in different places depending on the language). However, for an intransitive verb, the argument could be marked with either set, since they overlap for the S argument; S=A verbs are those which use the nominative set for agreement, whereas S=O verbs are those which use the absolutive set for agreement. For instance, if ‘enter’ is an S=A verb, then ‘I enter’ would be expressed as ‘enter-1s.NOM’; if ‘weep’ is an S=O verb, then ‘I weep’ would be expressed as ‘weep-1s.ABS’.
On the post Split ergativity — Part 2, I added the following (new parts bolded):
We have already seen that active-stative systems (i.e. split-S and fluid-S) most often manifest their ergativity through verbal agreement rather than case-marking, as those varieties of split ergativity depend on the nature of the verb. Similarly, animacy-based split ergative systems most often manifest their ergativity through case-marking, as this variety of split ergativity depends on the nature of the noun. However, this is certainly not a universal: Dixon lists Chukchi, Coast Salish and Chinook as having an animacy-based split system using verbal agreement. When animacy-based systems do use case-marking, they most commonly use three case-markers: the nominative and absolutive cases are usually unmarked (making them syncretic as a side-effect), as is usual for those cases, while the ergative and accusative cases each get their own case-markers. For instance, in Dyirbal, the nominative and absolutive cases are both null, the ergative case is -ŋgu, and the accusative case is -na. Of course languages can diverge from this model — especially in more complex splits, such as those outlined below — but from a conlanging perspective, this sort of system is a good place to start.
I’d actually be pretty interested to know if there are any split ergative languages which don’t use a variant of this sort of system. I do know that Proto-Pamir had a weird split ergative system with only two cases (Dixon p202), but does anyone know of any others?

(I intend to make a post like this every time I make a substantial edit to one of my previous posts, so you don’t need to continuously reread the older posts to see if I’ve added anything. I think these edits are a product of how I’m writing this series: I’ve been learning quite a lot about each area of ergativity just after I release each post, as people comment with new things I didn’t know about before, or ask questions about things I didn’t include, so now I’m having to go back and write about everything I’ve missed…)

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:58 am
by bradrn
Split ergativity — Part 3

Splits on tense, aspect and mood

At this point, we have covered two types of split ergativity: namely, splits on the nature of the verb (i.e. active-stative splits) and splits on the nature of the NP (i.e. animacy-based splits). Now let’s investigate another very common type of split ergativity: splits on tense, aspect or mood (abbreviated TAM). In a language with a TAM split, one morphosyntactic alignment is used in a clause with some TAMs, while another morphosyntactic alignment is used in a clause with other TAMs.

Earlier, it was noted that, due to their nature, active-stative and animacy-based splits usually occur with a specific type of morphological ergativity: active-stative splits depend on the specific verb which is being used, and so these splits most often occur with verbal agreement, while animacy-based splits depend on the specific NP which is being used, and so most often occur with case-marking. Since tense, aspect and mood aren’t particularly intimately related to either the verb or the NP to the same extent as the two other split systems mentioned, we might expect that TAM splits could occur using either tense-marking affixes or verbal agreement affixes. And this is indeed the case: languages such as Burushaski and Hindi show a TAM split using case-marking affixes, while languages such as Yucatec and Chukchi show a TAM split using verbal agreement.

The split systems which have already been covered clearly show a strong ‘preference’ (for lack of a better word) in terms of which part of the system gets which type of marking. For instance, animacy-based splits almost always have ergative marking for less animate NPs and absolutive marking for more animate NPs. Similarly, splits on tense, aspect or mood also have a strong preference for using ergative marking in some situations and accusative marking in others:
  • In a split on tense, the past tense will be ergative and the present tense will be accusative.
  • In a split on aspect, the perfective will be ergative and the imperfective will be accusative.
  • Splits on mood are rarer and show fewer clear patterns, but one relatively common pattern is for the imperative to be accusative while most or all other moods are ergative. Another attested pattern is for negative clauses to be accusative while positive clauses are ergative, although strictly speaking this isn’t quite a modal distinction. (Note: this category of ‘modal splits’ seem to have quite a substantial overlap with ‘splits by clause type’, as presented below; there are quite a few splits which can be categorised as both.)
Of course, there are variations on these patterns. Most prominently, it is relatively common for a language with a TAM split to use direct marking (i.e. leave out cases entirely) rather than accusative marking; this is the case in Burushaski, for instance, where there is an ergative system of case-marking in ‘past-based tenses’ (as Dixon calls them), but no case-marking in ‘non-past tenses’. Basque and Lhasa Tibetan also show this pattern with an aspectual split, albeit with a few subtleties (see below for details). Since the absolutive is usually unmarked anyway in ergative-absolutive systems, such a system could also be considered to be a form of optional ergative marking, where ergative case-marking is present in past or perfective but not present or imperfective.

Another variation with this sort of split is the exact point where ergative changes to absolutive. Above I stated that these splits always occur at a certain point, but Jessica Coon suggests that aspectual splits follow a hierarchy, in a similar way to animacy-based splits, where the left side is accusative (or at least non-ergative) and the right side is ergative:
progressive > imperfective > perfective
One might expect a similar hierarchy with tense splits — most probably ‘future > present > past’ — but I haven’t seen such a hierarchy described anywhere. As for modal splits, it unfortunately seems much harder to draw a clear hierarchy for those, given the absence of many clear patterns.

And finally, as with the other types of splits we have seen so far, there are always some languages which don’t follow the rules, although these are of course quite rare. The most notable example is the Macro-Jê language Shokleng, which has an aspectual split in main clauses — but it is the ‘stative aspect’ (as McGregor calls it; it is presumably related to the perfective) which gets ergative marking, and the ‘active aspect’ which gets an accusative system (which interestingly enough is marked nominative). This is a fairly unusual system, although it’s worth mentioning that the split system in Shokleng is unusual in other ways as well (see below for details).

We saw in previous sections that split systems are generally pretty easy to explain: accusative marking is used in more agentive situations, while ergative marking is used in less agentive situations. Unfortunately, splits on tense and aspect seem to be far more difficult to explain, with several different explanations having been proposed. There have been too many explanations proposed to list them all, so I won’t go into details; I will just say that none of the explanations proposed (including my own) seem particularly plausible.

On the other hand, modal splits often have much more obvious explanations than tense and aspect splits. For instance, one somewhat common modal split is a situation where the imperative gets accusative marking, but non-imperative moods get ergative marking. This split has a clear explanation: the imperative emphasises the fact that S or A is in control of the activity (and thus can be ordered to perform it), whereas non-imperative moods place no such emphasis on this agentivity.

Splits by clause type

A rarer type of split ergativity consists of a split between different types of clause. This is sometimes summarised as a split between ‘main’ and ‘subordinate’ clauses; however, strictly speaking this description is incorrect, since languages with this sort of split usually have splits between specific types of subordinate clauses rather than splits between all main and all subordinate clauses. Generally, these splits operate on semantic grounds:
  • Purporsive subclauses (expressed in English as infinitives or clauses starting with ‘in order to …’) and imperative clauses generally describe an action which is under the control of the agent; thus, they will get accusative marking.
  • By contrast, relative clauses (e.g. ‘I saw a tree [which fell over]’) and non-purposive complement clauses (e.g. ‘I think that [puppies are cute]’) simply describe an event without ascribing agency or absence of agency; thus they may recieve either accusative or ergative marking.
  • Another way of viewing relative clauses is through their association with the animacy hierarchy. In English, relative clauses are common with humans, animates and inanimates, but are almost never used with pronouns and demonstratives; this is especially prominent with restrictive relative clauses, which may not occur with first and second person singular pronouns. Other languages show a similar pattern. So relative clauses are associated with the right-hand side of the animacy hierarchy, and thus can get ergative marking.
So if, for instance, there is a split between purporsive clauses and other clauses, purporsives will get accusative marking while other clauses will be ergative. Conversely, if there is a split between relative clauses and other clauses, relative clauses will get ergative marking while other clauses will get accusative marking. In general, in a split between one type of subclause and all other clauses, the subclause will get one morphosyntactic alignment while the other clause types will get the opposite alignment.

By and large, the attested examples of splits by clause type support this reasoning. For instance, Päri has a split between imperative and non-imperative clauses; as expected, imperative clauses are accusative (albeit in a marked nominative pattern), whereas all other clauses get ergative marking. (Although note that this has also been described as a split on mood; as noted above, there is a substantial overlap between splits by mood and splits by clause type). Similarly, Tsimshian has a split between ‘subjunctive’ subordinate clauses and other clauses (Boas 1911, cited in Dixon): here, subordinate clauses get ergative marking, whereas main clauses get accusative marking. (Interestingly, recall that non-purposive complement clauses can be either ergative or accusative, so theoretically there should be no problem with the split going the other way around here.)

Of course, there are always exceptions. In this case, one of the more interesting languages with a main/subordinate clause split is Shokleng. Unusually, Shokleng does have a split between all subordinate clauses — which get ergative verbal agreement — and all main clauses — which get ergative or accusative verbal agreement depending on their aspect (this split was described above). McGregor notes that this unusual alignment may be a consequence of the unusual aspectual split in Shokleng, as described above: he theorises that since both subordinate clauses and stative aspect typically describe backgrounded information, it makes sense that if one has an unusual alignment, then the other will too.

Combinations of splits

The four splits already covered suffice to explain the majority of split ergative systems. However, many more complex split systems don’t just use one type of split; instead, they use combinations of two (or more rarely three) different types of split. Some examples (from Dixon) will illustrate:
  • Balochi combines an animacy-based split and a split on TAM: ergative case is marked only in perfective aspect, and only on third person pronouns and nouns. When either of these conditions are not satisfied, Balochi uses a neutral system instead (S,A,O are all unmarked). Burushaski and Sumerian are similar.
  • Kuikúro also combines an animacy-based split and a TAM split, but in a slightly different way. In Kuikúro, moods are divided into ‘interactive’ (including imperative, hortative, intentional) and ‘descriptive’ (presumably everything else). As expected, the descriptive moods get obligatory ergative marking (since they’re less agentive than the interactive moods), but the marking used for the interactive moods is split by animacy: ergative marking is obligatory for third person A, optional for second person or exclusive first person plural A, and completely disallowed for first person singular or inclusive first person plural A.
  • Mawayana combines an active-stative system and a TAM split. In this system, intransitive verbs are divided into two classes. One set of verbs is always S=O; for these, the S argument is marked on the verb with the same set of suffixes used for O. The other set is split on TAM: the O agreement suffixes are used in ‘present continuous and near past clauses’, but the A agreement suffixes are used ‘in remote past and future clauses’.
  • Yukulta combines an animacy-based split and (debatably) a TAM split. There are two different transitive constructions: construction 1 (as I will call it) marks A with the ergative and O with the absolutive, and marks the verb with transitive suffixes, whereas construction 2 marks A with the nominative and O with the dative, and marks the verb with intransitive suffixes (Legate 2017, Dixon 1994). Construction 2 is used in situations when O is less affected by the action: in particular, it is required for negative clauses and desideratives. (Dixon analyses this as a realis/irrealis mood split, but Legate disputes this.) It is also required when A and O are both pronouns and O outranks A on the animacy hierarchy. In all other situations, construction 1 is used.
  • As mentioned above, Shokleng combines a TAM split with a split by clause type. In subordinate clauses, ergative is always marked. But in main clauses with ‘stative aspect’, the ergative is marked via a postposition, whereas in main clauses with ‘active aspect’, the nominative is marked via a (different) postposition.
  • Tsimshian apparently combines an animacy-based split with a split by clause type, but Dixon doesn’t go into details.
  • Georgian combines an active-stative split, animacy-based split, and TAM split: aorist and perfect verbs get split-S marking, but the ‘ergative’ case (the one used for A and S=A) is only marked for nouns and third person pronouns.
  • Cavineña combines an animacy-based split, TAM split and split by clause type. In ‘high activity’ transitive clauses, the ergative case is always marked on nouns, but it is often unmarked on pronouns. But in ‘low activity’ transitive clauses (i.e. those which express ‘negation, potentiality, intention, sensation and contrary to fact’ (Camp 1985, quoted in Dixon), i.e. ‘mood types that downplay the role of the agent’ (Dixon)), the ergative is almost always marked, even on pronouns.
  • Some Tupí-Guaraní languages use a combination of an active-stative split, animacy-based split and split on clause type. These languages have four different sets of verbal agreement prefixes: set 1 is used for A and S=A, set 2 is used for O and S=O, set 3 is used for certain serial verb constructions, and set 4 (which only marks number) is used for O. In intransitive main clauses, set 1 is used for S=A verbs and set 2 is used for S=O verbs. In transitive main clauses, the choice of sets depends on the animacy of A and O: when O is third person, then the verb agrees with A (using set 1) and O (using set 2); when O is higher on the animacy hierarchy then A, the verb only agrees with O (using set 2); and when A is first person and O is second person, then the verb again only agrees with O (but using set 4). But in temporal and conditional subordinate clauses (which in fact make up all subordinate clauses in these languages), the verb agrees only with O and all S arguments (both S=A and S=O) using the set 2 prefixes. So subordinate clauses are fully ergative, while main clauses combine an active-stative split (for intransitive verbs) with an animacy-based split (for transitive verbs).
Note that this means that all combinations of two of the split types which have been described are attested; any type of split ergativity may co-occur with any other type of split ergativity. Similarly, almost every combination of three types of split ergativity is attested, the only unattested combination being a combination of an active-stative system + TAM split + split on clause type.

Rarer types of split

(Much of the information in this section is from the 2017 article Split Ergativity in Syntax and at Morphological Spellout, by Ellen Woolford.)

The split types listed above are sufficient to describe the vast majority of known split ergative systems. However, there also do exist some more unusual types of split, including the following:
  • Nepali apparently has a split between ‘individual level predicates’, which predicate ‘a lasting/inherent property of a referent’, and ‘stage level predicates’, which ‘say something about a property of a referent that holds for a slice of that referent’s … existence’ (Butt and Poudel 2007, quoted in Woolford). Individual level predicates, as in the sentence ‘Ram knows English’, get ergative alignment; stage level predicates, as in the sentence ‘Ram will speak English (today)’, get accusative alignment. Woolford notes that in copular clauses, Nepali uses two different copulas for these two different predicate types; outside of copular clauses, the distinction is maintained using an alignment split instead.
  • Folopa and Mongsen Ao (mentioned earlier) have an unusual ‘socially-controlled split’, in which the ergative case ‘is interpreted in certain contexts as asserting or emphasizing the subject’s control/ownership of the object, which can be rude in some social situations, and indicates theft in others’ (Woolford). In particular, Folopa is unusual in that it appears to have a fluid-S system with transitive verbs rather than intransitive verbs: the A argument may be marked either with the ergative or nominative case depending on the connotation which the speaker wants to convey.
  • Dixon describes Yagua and Pajonal Campa as also having an unusual type of fluid-S system. In these languages, the accusative seems to be the unmarked case for S arguments; the absolutive is used mainly ‘to mark a change of state, a change of location, or a point of episodic climax’; that is, ‘to highlight some new information (but not a new participant)’.
Case Studies

To finish our discussion of split ergativity, I now want to present a couple of more in-depth case studies of two interesting split ergative systems — namely those of Basque and Lhasa Tibetan. The examples of split systems presented above are all fairly easy to understand; their splits only have one or two parts to them, without many complicating factors. But languages don’t always do this; often, split ergative systems can become much more difficult to analyse (as in Basque). And even languages with fairly ‘normal’ split ergative systems can have many subtleties (as in Lhasa Tibetan).

Basque

Basque is well-known as the only ergative language in western Europe. This is manifested in Basque through both case-marking — where A is marked with -ak and O/S are marked with -a — as well as verbal agreement (Coon 2013):

Ehiztari-ak
hunter-ART.ERG
otso-a
wolf-ART.ABS
harrapatu
caught
du.
AUX(have)

The hunter has caught the wolf.

Otso-a
wolf-ART.ABS
etorri
arrived
da.
AUX(be)

The wolf has arrived.

However, Basque also shows an aspectual split, where the perfective and imperfective aspects receive ergative marking, while the progressive aspect receives neutral marking, in accordance with the aspectual hierarchy given above:

Emakume-a
woman-ART.ABS
ogi-a
bread-ART.ABS
ja-te-n
eat-NML-LOC
ari
PROG
da.
AUX(be)

The woman is eating the bread.

Emakume-a
woman-ART.ABS
dantza-n
dance-LOC
ari
PROG
da.
AUX(be)

The woman is dancing.

At first, this appears to be a fairly standard split ergative system. However, Coon (citing Laka (2006) as the original proposer of this idea) suggests that Basque is not split ergative at all, but rather uses a thoroughly non-split ergative alignment. According to Coon, the apparent split is caused by the Basque progressive being a biclausal construction, with the ‘progressive marker’ ari rather than ja- eat being the main verb of this sentence. In this analysis, the first sentence above — namely The woman is eating the bread — is in fact biclausal, with eating the bread given as a locative. This makes the ‘progressive’ verb ari intransitive, and hence the ‘subject’ emakume woman must be in the absolutive rather than the otherwise expected ergative. An English equivalent would be something like The woman is engaged [at eating the bread]; obviously the verb engaged is intransitive here, but since English is nominative-accusative, both the A argument of eating and the S argument of the woman get the same case-marking (which Coon suggests could be why mainly nominative-accusative languages don’t normally exhibit aspectual splits). Clearly, on this basis, it is difficult to categorise Basque in terms of whether it is split ergative or just plain ergative with an interesting progressive construction.

(Coon lists many other language with this variety of split, including Chol, Qʼanjobʼal, and some Nakh-Daghestanian languages. Based on this data, she then goes on to suggest that in fact all aspectual splits are of this type, although I’m not too sure about this conclusion.)

Lhasa Tibetan

(Source: most of the information in this section comes from Scott DeLancey’s article The Blue Bird of Ergativity.)

Unlike Basque, Lhasa Tibetan doesn’t have any particularly hard-to-classify features; instead its alignment is fairly straightforward and similar to other ergative languages. However, I cover it due to the complexity of its alignment system, which involves syntactic, semantic and pragmatic features, with some subtleties.

Most prominently, Lhasa Tibetan has a split on aspect (briefly mentioned earlier), where perfective clauses get obligatory ergative marking while imperfective clauses get optional ergative marking:

nga-s
1s-ERG
stag
tiger
bsad-pa yin
killed-PERF/CONJ

I killed a tiger.

nga(-s)
1s(-ERG)
stag
tiger
gsod-kyi yod
?

I am killing a tiger.

nga
1s
bod-la
Tibet-LOC
>gro-gyi yod
?

I am going to Tibet.

(DeLancey provides no gloss for the last two sentences, although I have provided a gloss for some words where I can.)

However, Lhasa Tibetan also shows a curious phenomenon: the so-called ‘ergative’ case can also be used to optionally mark S! This only occurs in the perfective aspect, and for certain ‘volitional intransitive verbs’, particularly motion verbs (Tournadre 1995):

nga(-s)
1s-ERG
bod-la
Tibet-LOC
phyin-ba yin
went-PERF/CONJ

I went to Tibet.

(Terminological note: given that -s is used to mark A and S, it seems like it should be called a nominative rather than ergative case. But all the sources I’ve seen call it ergative, and I will do the same.)

It thus seems that Lhasa Tibetan is also an active-stative language, albeit one where the vast majority of verbs are in the S=O category. (Such systems seem to be not uncommon; another example is Warlpiri, where the ergative case is used to mark the S argument of only a very small set of intransitive verbs (Nash 1980).)

Now, I am sure that there are several ways to analyse this system, but I will only cover two. The obvious ‘analysis’ (insofar as the word can be applied) is to simply list how this system can be expressed as a combination of various types of split ergativity: Lhasa Tibetan has an aspectually split system where non-perfective clauses get optional ergative marking, and perfective clauses get active-stative marking. This seems clear enough, with the only problems being terminological: the same case is used to mark A in non-perfective clauses and S/A in perfective clauses, so it is hard to know whether to call this an ergative or nominative case.

On the other hand, DeLancey claims that this analysis obscures what is really happening in Lhasa Tibetan. Rather, he prefers to invoke ‘the Hopper and Thompson notion of global transitivity’: a prototypically transitive verb has two arguments, perfective aspect, and volition, whereas a prototypically intransitive verb has one argument, non-perfective aspect and less volition. In Lhasa Tibetan, the closer a verb is to prototypical transitivity, the more likely it is that its argument will be marked ergative — for instance, DeLancey says that ‘A two-argument clause can have an ergative argument even if it is not perfective or active … But a formally intransitive clause must be both active and perfective to qualify for ergative marking’.

However, DeLancey notes that neither of these analyses address a fundamental fact about the Lhasa Tibetan case system: the ‘optional’ ergative marker, as described above, is not in free variation between present and absent, but in fact serves a pragmatic role, as is often found in systems with optional ergative marking. Specifically, the presence of the ergative marker on A or S gives contrastive focus to that argument. (An example was given previously in the section on optional ergative marking.)

So to conclude, the distribution of the Tibetan ‘ergative case’ depends on a number of syntactic, semantic and pragmatic factors:
  • Obligatory on the A argument of perfective transitive verbs
  • Optional on the A argument of non-perfective transitive verbs and the S argument some particularly agentive perfective intransitive verbs; the presence of the ergative marker here indicates contrastive emphasis
  • Disallowed on the S argument of non-perfective intransitive verbs.
If we insist on a further analysis — as DeLancey seems to do — I am sure that we can derive all sorts of interesting conclusions (as DeLancey indeed does), but I don’t see such an analysis as necessary, given that each point the description above is already pretty similar to the simpler split systems we’ve seen before.

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 7:03 am
by evmdbm
bradrn wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 8:58 am For instance, one somewhat common modal split is a situation where the imperative gets accusative marking, but non-imperative moods get ergative marking. This split has a clear explanation: the imperative emphasises the fact that S or A is in control of the activity (and thus can be ordered to perform it), whereas non-imperative moods place no such emphasis on this agentivity.
Have you got an example of this? You mention Pari later, so maybe from that language. I order you to do something. Run! Hit Fred! In neither example (in English) are you mentioned at all. so while S or A may be in control they are dropped from the phrase and so no marking of any sort required. It seems excessive to me to have a whole new accusative case for Fred in the second example. so in a non-imperative setting: Bradrn-ERG hit Fred-ABS, but Hit Fred-Acc if it's imperative.

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 8:33 am
by bradrn
evmdbm wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 7:03 am
bradrn wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 8:58 am For instance, one somewhat common modal split is a situation where the imperative gets accusative marking, but non-imperative moods get ergative marking. This split has a clear explanation: the imperative emphasises the fact that S or A is in control of the activity (and thus can be ordered to perform it), whereas non-imperative moods place no such emphasis on this agentivity.
Have you got an example of this? You mention Pari later, so maybe from that language. I order you to do something. Run! Hit Fred! In neither example (in English) are you mentioned at all. so while S or A may be in control they are dropped from the phrase and so no marking of any sort required. It seems excessive to me to have a whole new accusative case for Fred in the second example. so in a non-imperative setting: Bradrn-ERG hit Fred-ABS, but Hit Fred-Acc if it's imperative.
Yes, Päri is an example of this. (I thought I was pretty clear that it was an example: ‘Päri has a split between imperative and non-imperative clauses’. But maybe I should make this clearer by mentioning Päri when I first introduce the split.) But note that Päri has a marked nominative system, so the accusative case is unmarked. And Dixon says that Päri also uses ergative alignment for ‘most types of subordinate clause’, so the accusative isn’t even just used for imperatives. If you want more examples, Dixon also quotes Michalowski (1980) as saying that Sumerian has the same sort of split, though Edzard (2003) seems to dispute this.

But — and I’m not sure if you noticed this — your post itself gives an argument for giving imperatives a nominative-accusative alignment! You say: ‘In neither example (in English) are you mentioned at all … while S or A may be in control they are dropped from the phrase and so no marking of any sort required’. In other words, you say that you should mark S and A the same way — which is precisely the definition of a nominative-accusative system! I would also note that ‘nominative-accusative alignment’ doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to have ‘a whole new accusative case’, as you assume — it can be marked nominative (as with Päri), and I wouldn’t be surprised either if the ‘accusative’ case is syncretic with the genitive, dative or some other non-core case.

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:45 pm
by evmdbm
bradrn wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 8:33 am Yes, Päri is an example of this. (I thought I was pretty clear that it was an example: ‘Päri has a split between imperative and non-imperative clauses’. But maybe I should make this clearer by mentioning Päri when I first introduce the split.) But note that Päri has a marked nominative system, so the accusative case is unmarked.
I actually meant an example sentence. but never mind; I see it now, bit slow on the uptake. I also hadn't realised I had made a killer argument for a nom-acc alignment, because it didn't occur to me that total absence of S and A counted as identical markingof S and A, although if you were a language with a thoroughly ergative alignment (Basque??) it makes no difference. We could claim the accusative was syncretic with the absolutive (which it presumably it is in Pari) but who cares because you never see the nominative (but you do in Pari in other scenarios).

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 6:10 pm
by bradrn
evmdbm wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 2:45 pm
bradrn wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 8:33 am Yes, Päri is an example of this. (I thought I was pretty clear that it was an example: ‘Päri has a split between imperative and non-imperative clauses’. But maybe I should make this clearer by mentioning Päri when I first introduce the split.) But note that Päri has a marked nominative system, so the accusative case is unmarked.
I actually meant an example sentence. but never mind; I see it now, bit slow on the uptake.
I’d also like an example sentence, actually; if I find one, I’ll include it.
I also hadn't realised I had made a killer argument for a nom-acc alignment, because it didn't occur to me that total absence of S and A counted as identical markingof S and A, although if you were a language with a thoroughly ergative alignment (Basque??) it makes no difference. We could claim the accusative was syncretic with the absolutive (which it presumably it is in Pari) but who cares because you never see the nominative (but you do in Pari in other scenarios).
Actually, even if you have a thoroughly ergative language (Basque isn’t one, but e.g. Dyirbal is), you still get S and A being treated similarly in imperatives; Dixon lists this as a universal. I was planning to get to that in the next section (although that’s taking a bit of time to research and write).

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:37 am
by jal
Took a while to read, but as always, interesting and seemingly pretty exhaustive. Thanks!

Some remarks:
  • "this is especially prominent with restrictive relative clauses, which may not occur with demonstratives and pronouns" - I may misunderstand, but are clauses like "He who is without sin" and "Those that are gathered here" not restrictive relative clauses occuring with a pronoun and a demonstrative, respectively?
  • typo: "CONK" -> "CONJ"
  • typo, probably: "even if it not" -> "even if not" or "even if it's not"

JAL

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 10:12 am
by bradrn
jal wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 9:37 am Took a while to read, but as always, interesting and seemingly pretty exhaustive. Thanks!
You’re welcome! I’m glad you’re finding it interesting.
Some remarks:
  • "this is especially prominent with restrictive relative clauses, which may not occur with demonstratives and pronouns" - I may misunderstand, but are clauses like "He who is without sin" and "Those that are gathered here" not restrictive relative clauses occuring with a pronoun and a demonstrative, respectively?
Good point. Dixon was originally the one who said this, and I couldn’t think of any counter-examples, so thanks for providing some! But I think it’s only third person pronouns which can take restrictive relative clauses — I don’t believe first and third person pronouns can take them. I’ll change that now.
  • typo: "CONK" -> "CONJ"
  • typo, probably: "even if it not" -> "even if not" or "even if it's not"
Oops! I’ll fix those now. (If you look at the linked paper, the second one is “even if it is not”.) And I thought I read through that post so carefully before I submitted it…

EDIT: They should be fixed now.

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 10:39 am
by jal
bradrn wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 10:12 amI don’t believe first and third person pronouns can take them. I’ll change that now.
Assuming you mean "second", not "third", I mostly agree, though something like "you who are tired may sleep" as shorthand for "those of you who are tired ..." may work? (Still, "you" is technically still in the objective case, cf. "us who are tired ..." so it may not be a good example).


JAL

Re: Ergativity for Novices

Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 7:22 am
by bradrn
jal wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 7:20 am
bradrn wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 7:13 amIf you remove various components, both “That’s not the me” and “That’s not me that you’re familiar with” are completely ungrammatical, so I have a feeling there’s something funny going on there.
This is turning into a whole 'nother discussion now, I suggest taking it elsewhere, and leave this thread to ergativity.
Yep, good idea. I think I’ll make a new thread for this.

EDIT: New thread at https://www.verduria.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=611