Zompist Bboard Again

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:54 am How do you say ‘Zzyxwqnp’?

[ⁿdzɿ˧˩wɒ̃˩], [a ɒ e ə o i u ɿ v̩] <a q e z o i u y v>; <z> in the onset is [dz] (this isn't ambiguous because strict CV syllable structure) and doubling the voiced letter gets you the prenasalized one. The orthography is phonetic rather than phonemic because phonemic analysis is hard, and the prestige dialect has restructured itself in a manner conducive to a four-vowel analysis, with /a ə ɿ v̩/ and maximum C(j|w)V syllable structure: /a ə/ [ɒ o] after a labial and [æ e] after a palatal, /ɿ v̩/ [‌i u] after a semivowel. So the name of the language could be phonemicized /ni˧˩wã˩/.

However, the language above is not Zzyxwqnp, but Zot. (They call themselves Wedenf /weðe˧˩/; Zot is an exonym, and an obviously un-Zzyxwqnp one, so it's probably either from Kangshi or Narng.) An important difference between the two is that the syllable tone system of standard Zzyxwqnp has not yet degenerated into a word tone system, as it has in typical Vengic tone languages like Zot, so a tone letter is needed on every syllable.

Since Zzyxwqnp is the prestige language of the area in which Zot is spoken, I figure Zot should be romanized with an adaptation of the Zzyxwqnp romanization; cf. Chinese minority languages with their weird adaptations of Pinyin. But so far Zot is the only Vengic language phonologically close enough to Zzyxwqnp to do this to - I've of course made all the conservative languages first, and they haven't lost their coda consonants yet. (What, which is probably the one in my sig, has coda consonants and tone letters, but it only has two tones, written zero and <h>; it also doesn't allow open stressed syllables, so coda /h/ is unwritten, but coda /h/ only shows up before a pause or in reduplicated forms.)

Pezhiingano’ek woorem-waapih kaang yaayzhiim! Romanization Challenge Thread-em lee yaawkood doosh.
/peʒiːŋano.ek woːremwaːpih kaːŋ jaːjʒiːm || Romanization Challenge Thread‿em leː jaːwkoːd doːʃ/

pezhiingano-ek

someone-ERG

woorem-waapih

sound-collection

kaang

that

yaa-y-zhiim.

3s-3s-attend.to

Romanization Challenge Thread

Romanization Challenge Thread

-em

-GEN

lee

in

yaa-w-kood

3s-2s-place.down

doosh

should

That’s an interesting phonology! You should post it in the Romanization Challenge Thread.

(More translation troubles! It’s amazing how much unfinished work this thread reveals… The major problem here was figuring out how to say ‘interesting’. I eventually decided to use the circumlotion ‘is attended to’, although I’m not entirely happy with that. That leads to the problem of how to represent a passive in an ergative language; I decided to use akam chinjir’s suggestion of replacing the passive by ‘someone attends to it’. There were other problems too, but those were the main ones. Working on and off on it, it ended up taking a couple of hours to translate these two sentences — hopefully the next ones will be easier!)

ke kala tamyo yomupak tse'e
Y'all's (Nort and Travis) languages seem unreadable.

ma'a otomoya enketsua ke munye ka
What's the problem with a somewhat simplified orthography?

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:35 am (More translation troubles! It’s amazing how much unfinished work this thread reveals… The major problem here was figuring out how to say ‘interesting’. I eventually decided to use the circumlotion ‘is attended to’, although I’m not entirely happy with that. That leads to the problem of how to represent a passive in an ergative language; I decided to use akam chinjir’s suggestion of replacing the passive by ‘someone attends to it’. There were other problems too, but those were the main ones. Working on and off on it, it ended up taking a couple of hours to translate these two sentences — hopefully the next ones will be easier!)

You express a passive in an ergative language either by simply omitting the agent or with an explicit detransitivization marker.

masako wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:25 am ke kala tamyo yomupak tse'e
Y'all's (Nort and Travis) languages seem unreadable.

ma'a otomoya enketsua ke munye ka
What's the problem with a somewhat simplified orthography?

cɨɓo̰k jí ʔɛ̰ɛ nɨ̄ nɪʔɪtóon sɪkʰɔ́m.
Ciub'õuk yí ẽe niu ni'itóoun sikhóm.
rəgyam NEG DAT INV ACTION-write complex
Rəgyam does not have complex writing.

ɡɑ̄ tæ̀ ʔɛ̰ɛ nɨ̄ hɨ̄m ʔɐɗɔ̀p sɪkʰɔ́m.
Ga tàe ẽe niu hium ad'òp sikhóm.
PROX.S CLASS DAT INV one sound complex
It just has complex sounds.

Wedenf lyuj gis wengif syp xnxs wengif pyuzvp naj.
[we˥ðẽ˨˦ lju˧˥ ʁi˧˩ wẽ˥ʁi˨˦ sɵ˩ ʔɛ˧nɛ̃˩ wẽ˥ʁi˨˦ pju˩zɵ˩ nã˧˥]
Zot has simple sounds and simple writing.

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:53 pm Wedenf lyuj gis wengif syp xnxs wengif pyuzyp naj.
[we˥ðẽ˨˦ lju˧˥ ʁi˧˩ wẽ˥ʁi˨˦ sɵ˩ ʔɛ˧nɛ̃˩ wẽ˥ʁi˨˦ pju˩zɵ˩ nã˧˥]
Zot has simple sounds and simple writing.

Yaahawop, yaazhzhiimen reeʔ…
/jaːhawop | jaːʒiːmen reːʔ/

yaa-hawop

3s-simple

yaa-zh-zhiim-en

3s-1s-understand-NEG

reeʔ

but

It’s simple, but not understandable… (lit. I can’t understand it)

kʰɔ̄ ʔǣɨ hí sɨ̄ːk mɪkǽæ wɐnḭ jí ʔɐɓɑ̤i kɑ̤.
thing any ATTR need symbol tone NEG simple DED
Anything that requires tone letters is not simple.

Sgɔ̀ɔwɛ gyɔ̌.
Sgqqwxp gyqs.
need.3I>3I NEG
[sʁɔ˩ʔɔ˩wɛ˩ ʁjɔ˧˥]
It doesn't require them.

(replacing the negative because gyqs seems better than mlxj, but the negative construction will eventually be made more complicated anyway owing to the known developments in the Zotic verbal system - there probably ought to be a negative verb, but then I'll have to figure out how converbs work)

Gumha had hineahna nu enmoudyoreim aneureo edanyonleo
INST-something REL.PROP simple-very RF ten-three-phoneme NZI-more-no and-tone-no
What is simple is having only thirteen phonemes and no tone

Hoin ma ahmeug gum enamogmor med nona irea yoer eiduro oh [r] ed [l].
yet ACT.1s write INST ten-four-symbol because EXP-1s pleasure VIA difference PART [r] and [l]
Although I do use fourteen letters because I like to distinguish [r] and [l]

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:38 am Sgɔ̀ɔwɛ gyɔ̌.

ɡɑ̄ bǽŋ ʔɛ́k glɑ́ nɨ̄ mæ̀.
PROX.S CLASS 1S like INV EGO
This is what I like.

IPA yaazhbeeshimen. Yaahawopen riʔaa’eng yaareebemeneng.
/IPA jaːʒbeːʃimen || jaːhawopen riʔaː.eŋ jaːreːbemeneŋ/

IPA-∅

IPA-ABS

yaa-zh-beeshim-en.

3s-1s-like-NEG

yaa-hawop-en

3s-simple-NEG

riʔaaa=eng

INT=CONJ

yaa-reebem-en=eng.

3s-good-NEG=CONJ

I don’t like IPA. It’s overly complicated and ugly.

(Well, to be precise, I quite like the IPA. I just don’t like using it as an orthography. But I decided that working out the details of adverbial phrases would take too long, so I just translated the simpler sentence above.)

ʔɛ́k ɟɜ́ nɪʔɪtóon sɨɟǣm hɨnṵ ʔɔ̤m lǣ ɡɑ̄ gɛ̤ɛ bɨsòp hō nɪʔɪtóon nīim.
ék jéo ni'itóoun siujaem hiunũ ôm lae ga gêe biusòp ho ni'itóoun niim.
1S use ACTION-write nation REFL-between because COMP CLASS COMP-beautiful than ACTION-write plain
I use IPA because it is nicer than the regular orthography.

Woogem kaang yaadi… Zhaagek yaahawopnem yaazhbeeshim.
/woːgem kaːŋ jaːdi || ʒaːgek jaːhawopnem jaːʒbeːʃim/

woog-em

2s-GEN

kaang-∅

that-ABS

yaa-di…

3s-there.is

zhaag-ek

1s-ERG

yaa-hawop=nem-∅

3s-simple=C-ABS

yaa-zh-beeshim.

3s-1s-like

That’s your preference… I like the regular one.

May qoh źe kyaiŋ pyew na tsa may.
May qoh źe kyan pyew na tsa may.
1S speak.IPFV EGO language old REL GEN 1S
I am speaking in an old language of mine.

Goosh zhaagem 500-er yaakoodnem yaazo sheh lee, yaay!

goosh

this

zhaag-em

1s-GEN

500-er

500-ordinal

yaa-kood=nem

3s-place.down=COMP

yaa-zo

3s-COP.EQ

sheh

here

lee,

in

yaay!

yay

This is my 500th post here, yay!

(Not that it’s important, but this was one of the first online community I’ve heavily interacted with, and I’m quite happy at doing enough linguistics/conlanging to get to 500. Also, it gives me an opportunity to post some more here and develop my conlang a bit more…)

EDIT: Now that I’ve figured out the numbers, this should be something like Goosh zhaagem dweʔem dweʔanikem dweʔaniker yaakoodnem yaazo sheh lee, although there aren’t really any standardised numbers above 10.

Deana'ren!
Congratulations!

Goud nonde gei, nen da hod naum unnomin edendaa
and.then EXP-PROX do and.before ACT.PST.1s create hundred message and-ten-one
Before this post, I had made 111

jalu ka sa wali mi sa nila ki ni nu jalu ta ki sa wali mi sa nila ni sa mu ka ki ni nu mila mi sa ju mi sa mu ku ku ku ku ku si nila ni
time much CONT place same CONT exist not PRED SENT time near not CONT place same CONT exist PRED CONT speak much not PRED SENT reason same CONT living.thing same CONT speech one one one one one SUBJ exist PRED
It's been a long time since I've checked on this forum, and I was never really active back then either, so this is only my 5th post.

jupiter wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:58 pm ku ku ku ku ku
one one one one one
5th

Yu mekop langwic man-dem mos ebl tali gut pas ray yuman-dem.
Your conpeople must be better in counting than actual humans.


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:07 am

jupiter wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:58 pm ku ku ku ku ku
one one one one one
5th

Yu mekop langwic man-dem mos ebl tali gut pas ray yuman-dem.
Your conpeople must be better in counting than actual humans.


JAL

Or worse… this only works until five or six.

(I did try to translate this, but gave up because I don’t have comparatives, and any attempt at periphrasis only made the problem worse — but on the other hand, I did want to post this sentence. Obviously my language needs work.)