Zompist Bboard Again

Are verbs an open class?

Vilike wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:19 am Are verbs an open class?

Are there even any languages in the Arabic script area with a closed verb class? I’ve seen some claims that there are, but from what I can tell they just use a lot of light verb constructions without having a truly closed verb class; I’d be pretty interested to get some confirmation either way. (As far as I’m aware, closed verb classes are only really present in New Guinea, northern Australia, West Africa; also Tsafiki and possibly older stages of Japanese.)

Hmm, maybe a better question would be: does it prominently use light verb constructions?

Since we're on a new page:

اَرَبصقَاَ پِثمُ صقلالاثَ نَ اَصنُوَ نَبَسَىصقَهَ پِثمَ (٤صط. دَ ن.اَ. - ١ صط.), ىَقٌاَ وضِحٌدىِسى دَ صطَرَژِطنَاَرَمَىصقَهَ.
قِرٌنَق پِثمَ صپرَوَ نَلاوَ. ضنَچ‎نَىَ قٌلقَصسى لِطَر مَىَ ٤ نَپ‎ِصَنِّ و ضَلَژنَصسِ اِد پَضِسِاِ و صلٌوَ, نَقَطٌرِىَ پَرِ لِطَر صطوَرَىٌسى نَ پِثمَ لِهَطٌرِ.

Vilike wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:19 am Are verbs an open class?

Yes.

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:28 am does it prominently use light verb constructions?

No.

Does this language have a well-known separatist movement associated with it?

The language has separatists, or an ethnonational group associated with its speakers has separatists?

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:23 pm Does this language have a well-known separatist movement associated with it?

No.

fusijui wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:34 pm The language has separatists, or an ethnonational group associated with its speakers has separatists?

Either way - no.

OK, let me make a first guess: Turkic?

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:04 am OK, let me make a first guess: Turkic?

It's not a Turkic language.

Is it spoken in West Africa?

Vilike wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:27 am Is it spoken in West Africa?

No.

Well, since we know it has to be an Iranian language (and it's obviously not Farsi), but it's not the language of an insurgent group, I can see only one possibility:

The language is Gilaki, spoken along the Caspian coast.

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:19 am The language is Gilaki, spoken along the Caspian coast.

That's not it.

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:28 am (As far as I’m aware, closed verb classes are only really present in New Guinea, northern Australia, West Africa; also Tsafiki and possibly older stages of Japanese.)

does Basque not?

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:34 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:28 am (As far as I’m aware, closed verb classes are only really present in New Guinea, northern Australia, West Africa; also Tsafiki and possibly older stages of Japanese.)

does Basque not?

It does? I mean, I’ve heard something about Basque having a closed word class, but I just checked de Rijk’s grammar, and it says quite clearly that ‘exhaustive listing is clearly out of the question’ — and that’s just for the ambitransitive verbs!

W.A.G.: Baluchi?

fusijui wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:46 pm W.A.G.: Baluchi?

That was one of the languages I ruled out for having a separatist movement. But I think we're on the same track.

It's not Baluchi either.

Time's up! Time for the answer. For reference, here's the prompt again:

اَرَبصقَاَ پِثمُ صقلالاثَ نَ اَصنُوَ نَبَسَىصقَهَ پِثمَ (٤صط. دَ ن.اَ. - ١ صط.), ىَقٌاَ وضِحٌدىِسى دَ صطَرَژِطنَاَرَمَىصقَهَ.
قِرٌنَق پِثمَ صپرَوَ نَلاوَ. ضنَچ‎نَىَ قٌلقَصسى لِطَر مَىَ ٤ نَپ‎ِصَنِّ و ضَلَژنَصسِ اِد پَضِسِاِ و صلٌوَ, نَقَطٌرِىَ پَرِ لِطَر صطوَرَىٌسى نَ پِثمَ لِهَطٌرِ.

At first, one might try and transliterate it the following way:

Arabṣkaa pithmu ṣklalatha na aṣnuwa nabasayṣkaha pithma (4 ṣṭ. da n.a. - 1 ṣṭ.), yakua wziḥudyisy da ṣṭarazhiṭnaaramayṣkaha.
Kirunak pithma ṣprawa nalawa. ḍnachnaya kulkaṣsy liṭar maya 4 napiṣanni w ḍalazhnaṣsi ad paḍisii w ṣluwa, nakaṭariya pari liṭar ṣṭwarayusy na pithma lihaṭuri.

Already this has some hallmarks, but there is potential for misdirection, too. If we use a more typical transliteration for the script for this language, however, things become more clear:

Arabskae pismo sklalasya na asnowe nabatsayskaha pisyma (4 st. da n.e. - 1 st.), yakoe wzyhodzitsy da starazhytnaaramayskaha.
Kirunak pisyma sprawa nalewa. Znachnaya kolykastsy litar mae 4 napisanni w zalezhnastsi ad pazitsyi w slowe, nekatoryya pary litar stwarayutsy na pisyme lihatury.

Do you see it now?

Using the official language orthography, language identification becomes trivial and is left as an exercise to the reader: Both guesses were equally far away genealogically, but Moose-tache's guess is closer geographically, so I guess there's that.

I haven't been playing lately, but are we allowed to drastically change languages' orthographies, into scripts few of us are likely to be well-acquainted with?

Yeah, this was quite against the spirit and also the (old) stated "rules" of the thread. Strictly speaking though that rule was never re-restated or explicitly incorporated into the recent revamp of the game, so perhaps the question for our merry crew is whether we want to do so now. Is rewriting a text sample in an ahistorical orthography a twist we want to be available going forward?