Zompist Bboard Again

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:31 pm going to
shouldn't
shouldn't've
starting to
have to
've got to
didn't
can't
won't

(Note that I mean the pronunciations you actually use.)

[ˈgɞ̟͡ʉɪŋtˢə] (distinct from gonna [ˈgɞ̟na], which is a prospective aspect marker)
[ˈʃʊᵈn̩tˢ]
[ˈʃʊᵈn̩ˌtˢə(v)]
[ˈstɑˑ(ɾ)ɪŋtˢə]
[ˈhæftˢə]
[-vˈgɒɾə] (changes to [-vˈgɒn̩-] before voiced stops and possibly others)
[ˈd(ᶻ)ɪᵈn̩tˢ]
[ˈkʰɑˑntˢ]
[ˈwɞ̟͡ʉntˢ]

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:31 pm going to
shouldn't
shouldn't've
starting to
have to
've got to
didn't
can't
won't

(Note that I mean the pronunciations you actually use.)

[(g)ʌ̃(ɾ̃ə̃|ː)]
[ʃᵿ(d)n̩(ʔ)]
[ʃᵿ(d)n̩(ə|ː)]
anywhere from [stɒɹɽɪŋ tʰə] to [stɒɹʔn̺̩ə]
[(æ|ɛə)ftə] (rarely with [h])
[(g̟|ɣ)ɑ(ɾə|ː)]
[dɪ(d)n̩(ʔ)]
[kẽə̃(n)(ʔ|ˀ|ː)]
[wõʊ̯̃(n)(ʔ|ˀ|ː)]

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:14 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:31 pm going to
shouldn't
shouldn't've
starting to
have to
've got to
didn't
can't
won't

(Note that I mean the pronunciations you actually use.)

[(g)ʌ̃(ɾ̃ə̃|ː)]
[ʃᵿ(d)n̩(ʔ)]
[ʃᵿ(d)n̩(ə|ː)]
anywhere from [stɒɹɽɪŋ tʰə] to [stɒɹʔn̺̩ə]
[(æ|ɛə)ftə] (rarely with [h])
[(g̟|ɣ)ɑ(ɾə|ː)]
[dɪ(d)n̩(ʔ)]
[kẽə̃(n)(ʔ|ˀ|ː)]
[wõʊ̯̃(n)(ʔ|ˀ|ː)]

These are pretty much like what I am used to here, aside from that the vowels differ some as one would expect, that some people have long nasals while others have prestopped nasals (e.g. I have long nasals where my parents have prestopped nasals), that gotta is not pronounced with [ɣ], and that starting to normally loses the glottal stop. I have almost the same pronunciation of going to except that in addition to the formal pronunciation I have an intermediate pronunciation [ˈkɔɪ̯ɾ̃ə(ː)], i.e. the hiatus smoothed into a diphthong.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:02 pm … that gotta is not pronounced with [ɣ] …

Why would gotta be pronounced with [ɣ]? As far as I’m aware, most English dialects don’t even have that sound.

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:04 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:02 pm … that gotta is not pronounced with [ɣ] …

Why would gotta be pronounced with [ɣ]? As far as I’m aware, most English dialects don’t even have that sound.

I personally sometimes pronounce okay with it, i.e. as [aːˈɣe(ː)] - but then that is an interjection, and oftentimes interjections act weird phonologically.

[ˌgou̟̯nə ~ gənə ~ ənə] with the schwa being replaced by [ʊw] before a vowel.
[ʃʊ(d)ᵊnt’̚ ~ ʃʊ(d)ᵊnʔ ~ ʃʊᵊn(ʔ)]
[ʃʊ(d)ᵊn(t)ᵊv]
[ˈstaːtɪŋtə ~ ˈstaːtənə ~ ˈstaːʔnə] (with [ʊw] again)
[hæftə ~ hæftʊw]
[vgɔtə ~ vgɔ(d)ə] (also [ʊw] or [vgɔᵊw])
[dɪdᵊnt’̚ ~ dɪdᵊnʔ ~ dɪᵊn(ʔ)]
[kʰaːnt’̚ ~ kʰaːnʔ]
[wou̟̯nt’̚ ~ wou̟̯nʔ]

bradrn wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:04 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:02 pm … that gotta is not pronounced with [ɣ] …

Why would gotta be pronounced with [ɣ]? As far as I’m aware, most English dialects don’t even have that sound.

lenition. [ɰ] would be more accurate but I forgot to add that character when I made my IPA keyboard

Any BrE speakers that have a glottal stop of some sorts before the nasal in "didn't"?


JAL

"has to"
"wanna"
"I'll"
"while we're at it"
"for a while"
"caramel"
"television"
"Walmart" (If you don't have this store in your country, you can skip this one.)
"2020" (the year)

Space60 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:27 pm"caramel"

I grew up Catholic literally not knowing that "caramel" and "Carmel" were different words. I thought the candy was called that because the Carmelites invented it.

"2020" (the year)

Oh, I love this one. Twunny-twunny!

has to: [ˈ(h)ɛsʲtʲə(ː)]
wanna: [ˈwɒ̃ɾ̃əː~wɒ̃ə̯̃]
I'll: [a(ː)ɤ̯]
while we're at it: [ˈwaːwˌwʁ̩ːɛɾɘʔ]
for a while: [fʁ̩ːʁəːˈwa(ː)ɤ̯~fɔːʁʷəːˈwa(ː)ɤ̯]
caramel: [ˈkʰɑ̃ːʁ̃mɯ(ː)]
television: [ˌtʰɜːɤ̯əːˈvɘːʒɘ̃(ː)(n)]
Walmart: [ˈwɒ̃ːõ̯ˌmʌʁʔ]
2020: [ˈtʰwʌ̃ĩ̯ˌtʰwʌ̃ĩ̯]

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:36 pm

Space60 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:27 pm"caramel"

I grew up Catholic literally not knowing that "caramel" and "Carmel" were different words. I thought the candy was called that because the Carmelites invented it.

Lol.

[ˈhæstˢə]
[ˈwɐnɐ]
[(ɑ~ɔ)ˑw] (also [ɑ͡i(ɰ~w)] or [ˈɑj(ɯ~u)] in very careful speech)
[ˌwɔˑwwəˈæɾətˢ]
[ˌfoˑəˈwaːj(ɯ~u)]
[ˈkʰæɹʷəˌm(ɯ~u)]~[ˌkʰæɹʷəˈme̞(ɰ~w)]
[ˌtˢe̞ləˈvɪʒə̃n]
Don’t have [ˈwɔwmɑːtˢ] in my country
[ˌtˢʉː ˈθæ͡ʉzənən ˈtˢwe̞niˑ] or [ˈtˢwe̞niˑˈtˢwe̞niˑ]

I think the most interesting sound change here is l-vocalisation: I have /ɫ/ → [ɰ~w] (or → [ɯ~u] if syllabic), which can then cause the vowel immediately proceeding it to shift more back. It can also cause some resyllabication; for instance, while is two syllables for me (/wa͡iɫ/ → /wai(ɰ~w)/ → [ˈwaːj(ɯ~u)]), reduced to one syllable if unstressed ([wɔˑw]).

[ˈhæstə]
[ˈwɔnə] ~ [ˈwɔnʊw]
[a̟ː(ᵊ)ɫ ~ a̠ː(ᵊ)ɫ ~ ɑː(ᵊ)ɫ ~ ɑː(ᵊ)ɰ] ([ɫ] does some wierd stuff to all my vowels)
[wa̟ːᵊɫ ~ wa̠ː(ᵊ)ɫ ~ wɑː(ᵊ)ɫ ~ wɑː(ᵊ)ɰ wɪˑ ˈɻʷætɪ(t’̚) ~ ˈɻʷædɪ(t’̚)]
[f(ə)ɻʷə ˈwa̟ːᵊɫ ~ wa̠ː(ᵊ)ɫ ~ wɑː(ᵊ)ɫ ~ wɑː(ᵊ)ɰ]
[ˈkʰæɻʷᵊmᵊɫ]
[ˈtʰe̞lᵊˌvɪʐᵊn]
[wɯːɫmaˑt’̚ ~ ˈwʊ̠ːɰmaˑt’̚]
[tʰwe̞n(t)iˈtʰwe̞n(t)i]

Space60 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:27 pm "has to"
"wanna"
"I'll"
"while we're at it"
"for a while"
"caramel"
"television"
"Walmart" (If you don't have this store in your country, you can skip this one.)
"2020" (the year)

[(h)æstə]
[wɑ̃ɾ̃ə]
[ɔɫ] (not sure if this has ɑ or ɔ)
[wɔɫ wə˞ æɾɪ(ʔ|ɾ)] (again, not sure if this has ɑ or ɔ)
[fə˞ ə waəɫ]
[ˈkʰeɹəmɛɫ]
[ˈtʰɛɫəviʒən]
[wɔlmɒɹʔʈ]
[tʰwɛ̃̆ɾ̃ĭtʰwɛ̃̆ɾ̃ĭ]

"gonna"
"gotta"
"gimme"
"lemme" (I have the pin-pen merger, but "gimme" and "lemme" don't rhyme for me.)
"walkie-talkie"
"video"
"radio"
"movie"
"blu ray"
"toilet"
"dictionary"
"encyclopedia"
"library"
"librarian"
"Coca-Cola"

Space60 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:32 am "gonna"
"gotta"
"gimme"
"lemme" (I have the pin-pen merger, but "gimme" and "lemme" don't rhyme for me.)
"walkie-talkie"
"video"
"radio"
"movie"
"blu ray"
"toilet"
"dictionary"
"encyclopedia"
"library"
"librarian"
"Coca-Cola"

[ˌgou̟̯nə ~ gənə ~ ənə] with the schwa being replaced by [ʊw] before a vowel.
[ˈgɔtə ~ gɔ(d)ə] with [ʊw]
[ˈgɪmɪi̯]
[le̞(ʔ)mɪi̯]
[ˌwʊːkʰɪi̯ˈtʰʊːkʰɪi̯]
[ˈvɪdɪi̯ou̟̯]
[ˈræi̯dɪi̯ou̟̯]
[ˈmʉu̯vɪi̯]
[ˈblʉu̯ˌɻʷæi̯]
[ˈtʰʊi̯lᵊt’̚]
[ˈdɪkʂᵊnᵊɻʷɪi̯]
[ɪnsɑi̯kʰləˈpʰiːdɪi̯ə]
[ˈlɑi̯b(ᵊ)ɻʷɪi̯]
[lɑi̯ˈbɻʷe̞ːɻʷɪi̯ᵊn]
[ˌkʰou̟̯kʰəˈkʰou̟̯lə]

Space60 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:32 am "gonna"
"gotta"
"gimme"
"lemme" (I have the pin-pen merger, but "gimme" and "lemme" don't rhyme for me.)
"walkie-talkie"
"video"
"radio"
"movie"
"blu ray"
"toilet"
"dictionary"
"encyclopedia"
"library"
"librarian"
"Coca-Cola"

[ˈɡɔnɜ]
[ˈɡɔɾɜ]
[ˈɡ̟ɪmiˑ]
[ˈle̞miˑ] (although usually I don’t use this one: I say [ˈle̞t̚miˑ])
[ˈwoˑkʰiˈtoˑkʰi]
[ˈvɪdᶻiˌɞ̟͡ʉ]
[ˈɻʷæ͡idiˌɞ̟͡ʉ]
[ˈmʉˑvi]
[ˈblʉˑɻʷæ͡i]
[ˈtˢo͡iɫətˢ]
[ˈdɪkʃɘnˌɻʷiː]
[ənˌsɐ͡it͡ɬəˈpiːdi.ɜ]
[ˈlɐ͡ibɻʷi]
[lɐ͡ibˈɻʷɛːɻʷi.ən]
[ˌkʰɞ̟͡ʉkʰəˈkʰɞ̟͡ʉɫə]

(I’m a bit uncertain about some of this. I’m particularly unsure about the vowel lengths (particularly mid-long vs long vowels) and the exact realisation of /r/. But it should be reasonably accurate.)

"mathematics, mathematical" Do you pronounce the "e" as a distinct syllable?

Yes. I think I used to be on the other side of the divide, or at least in free variation, but I learned to very carefully enunciate my words when I got a job in sales. I hear both pronunciations in day to day life.