Zompist Bboard Again

To be clear the arabic script was used to write the language. I didn't make it up.

Zju wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:13 pm To be clear the arabic script was used to write the language. I didn't make it up.

For me, that's still in the spirit of the game then.

OK, but IIUC the text we were given was ahistorical, applying an extinct ~17th-century orthographic convention to a sample of the modern literary language. It's not a combination that exists, or existed, in the wild; rather a creation of the puzzle-poster. It's a fairly trivial effort to find an example, somewhere, of language X having once been written using script Y.

'Cuz if we really want to go down this path, I have this fat stack of 15th-century Chinese court interpreters' handbooks that have hanzi transcriptions of languages across most of Eurasia that would be fair game... I'd rather keep the thread focused on language identification without orthographic gotcha!-s, personally speaking.

This was tried earlier with an attempt at Hindi in an invented Latin romanisation. The reaction was strongly negative, as it is now. In general, I think that we had best stick to using either a romanisation or the currently used script, but not anything else.

I'm fine with historical texts (though in this case it's not even a historical text) if we make it clear in the rules that this can happen. I thought about asking if the language was still used, but thought better of it, because I assumed it was verbotten to use obsolete languages/scripts/formats. And even then it wouldn't have gotten me any closer.

Tidbit: I think it's fascinating that the Lipka Tatars learned a new language rather than a new script. Maybe because the Arabic script had religious connotations?

fusijui wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:01 pm OK, but IIUC the text we were given was ahistorical, applying an extinct ~17th-century orthographic convention to a sample of the modern literary language.

Not that orthographic convention. /ts/ should be <ࢯ>, etc. Belarusian Arabic in the actual Belarusian Arabic script would be at least less objectionable. Extinctness itself isn't - didn't someone post Hurrian once?

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:57 pm

fusijui wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:01 pm OK, but IIUC the text we were given was ahistorical, applying an extinct ~17th-century orthographic convention to a sample of the modern literary language.

Not that orthographic convention. /ts/ should be <ࢯ>, etc. Belarusian Arabic in the actual Belarusian Arabic script would be at least less objectionable. Extinctness itself isn't - didn't someone post Hurrian once?

Not Hurrian, but someone did post the Lemnos Stele here.

Yeah, and I remember someone gave us Pyu once -- the very same inscription I did in a class once, but the transcription was so unfamiliar & anti-familiar that I had no idea what it was!

Edit: About historical samples, yes, I agree completely. In fact I love 'em. It's just dressing up modern mutton in extinct lambskin, or vice versa, that gets my goat. I'll stop now.

Well, Zju, you did win. So I guess it's your turn again? Or you can hand it off if you want.

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:46 am Well, Zju, you did win. So I guess it's your turn again? Or you can hand it off if you want.

Didn’t Zju just do a challenge? And didn’t Zju say that you guessed the closest? On the other hand, if neither you nor Zju wants to post another challenge, I have a whole bunch of texts I’ve saved up for this thread, so I’d be happy to post one of them if no-one else wants to. (Also, as an experiment, there’s some rule changes I’d like to try out if I get a chance.)

Proceed.

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:26 amProceed.

OK then:

Ou, nahe naunapao sakine, sahiamo. Ou, nahe uo, esi oro tape, wa pa, esi oro tape, aire pore tepe, esi pa me repe, esi noie me repe, eme werai uapu aharo repe, nampa, esi pa, si, nahe, ou tepe, nampa, noie u pa kereme repe, si eme, tepe, nauno repe upuriamo. Nauno repuriamo, ou, nahe. Sene naunopuria. Eme iririn tepe, pari ou pa nampa u pa, te herepe namute, aharo repe, si epaisapesi. Si koia u nene pupuria. Uapu, tai, pupuria. Ou uo, aisapu naunopuria. Esi oro tape naunopuria.

For the aforementioned rule-change experiment, here’s the ruleset I’d like to try out:

• Everyone gets four opportunities to guess the language or family. There is no limit on other yes-or-no guesses.
• There is no time limit on guesses. You may make them as close or as far apart as you want to. (I know we were concerned earlier about people monopolising the game, but I actually don’t think this will be a problem; my reasoning is that, if you do try this, you’ll end up using up all four of your guesses pretty quickly and lose the opportunity to use them later.)
• The game ends when someone guesses the language correctly, or after four days, whichever is first. If after four days there is no correct guess, I will assign the winner using phylogenetic distance, or geographic distance if that is impossible.

Does the language have less than 12 consonants?

Karch wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:02 am Does the language have less than 12 consonants?

Yes.

Is it spoken in Papua-New Guinea?

Is there a clusivity distinction in the 1PL pronouns? What about dual number on pronouns? On nouns?

Karch wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:25 am Is it spoken in Papua-New Guinea?

Yes.

Vilike wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:39 am Is there a clusivity distinction in the 1PL pronouns? What about dual number on pronouns? On nouns?

Respectively: no, no, and no. (I’m actually a bit uncertain about that last answer, but only because my source says nothing at all about the presence or absence of the nominal dual.)

OK, serious question: does anyone here really have the ability to distinguish one PNG language (besides Rotokas and Tok Pisin) from another?

I'm afraid I'm the only one here who has the ability (Nortaneous might as well, but I don't know), but even I'm stumped here - hence the very broad questions - it could be from any area of the country! But I'll try - is it spoken in Gulf province?

Is it a Malayo-Polynesian language?