COVID-19 thread

[Talskubilos]

Anyways, your use of the word "plandemic" along makes it clear that you are just yet another conspiracy theorist. To be honest, I'd call you, like all your antivaxxer brethren, yet another enemy of society, of all those who actually want all this to end.

You're crazy. COVID-19 is a "plandemics" because it happens to be the first global disease which has been "rehearsed" before its outbreak.

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/

[Talskubilos]

Once again, WHO's "we"?

Of course, people who have a reasonable level of knowledge about how the world really works, rather than idiotically spout off about conspiracies and whatnot. Yes, you are the they, one of those who stand between people who would like to see this pandemic come to an end and it actually coming to and end. People like you are why we will be stuck with COVID-19 forever.

I'm sorry to say you're a victim of the psy-op codenamed "COVID-19" (yes, this term designates both the disease and the psy-op). As many other people, you've been conditioned to follow govn's orders and chase down dissidents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycholog ... ed_States)

[Nortaneous]

[snip]

You're splitting hairs. The reason why people are overdosing is that they are taking veterinary formulations of ivermectin, i.e. horse dewormer, because they involve substantially higher doses than human formulations of ivermectin.

do you squeeze an entire tube of toothpaste onto the end of your toothbrush every night

Anyways, your use of the word "plandemic" along makes it clear that you are just yet another conspiracy theorist. To be honest, I'd call you, like all your antivaxxer brethren, yet another enemy of society, of all those who actually want all this to end.

You're crazy. COVID-19 is a "plandemics" because it happens to be the first global disease which has been "rehearsed" before its outbreak.

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/

coronavirus pandemics have been an obvious possibility since at least SARS

[bradrn]

Oy vey. This thread gets more surreal by the minute.

[Talskubilos]

coronavirus pandemics have been an obvious possibility since at least SARS

As it happens, more than a possibility it's a certainity.

On the other hand, it's relevant to mention 9/11 and 7/7 coincided with anti-terrorism drills.

[Travis B.]

Once again, WHO's "we"?

Of course, people who have a reasonable level of knowledge about how the world really works, rather than idiotically spout off about conspiracies and whatnot. Yes, you are the they, one of those who stand between people who would like to see this pandemic come to an end and it actually coming to and end. People like you are why we will be stuck with COVID-19 forever.

I'm sorry to say you're a victim of the psy-op codenamed "COVID-19" (yes, this term designates both the disease and the psy-op). As many other people, you've been conditioned to follow govn's orders and chase down dissidents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycholog ... ed_States)

So because you position yourself as a dissident you are somehow automatically right, and those who oppose your thoroughly homicidal idiocy are somehow "victims of psy-ops" just because we happen to generally agree with the position of the national government ("generally" because at least in my case I believe that the national gov't is far too lax in its treatment of antivaxxers).

[Talskubilos]

So because you position yourself as a dissident you are somehow automatically right, and those who oppose your thoroughly homicidal idiocy

Stop using these words! It's quite obvious you've been brainwashed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

[Travis B.]

[snip]

You're splitting hairs. The reason why people are overdosing is that they are taking veterinary formulations of ivermectin, i.e. horse dewormer, because they involve substantially higher doses than human formulations of ivermectin.

do you squeeze an entire tube of toothpaste onto the end of your toothbrush every night

Do you really think that the kind of people who would take ivermectin formulated for horses and livestock are the sort of people who would properly adjust the dosage so it provides an appropriate human dose, rather than the dose on the packaging (i.e. the dose for horses)?

[Nortaneous]

Do you really think that the kind of people who would take ivermectin formulated for horses and livestock are the sort of people who would properly adjust the dosage so it provides an appropriate human dose, rather than the dose on the packaging (i.e. the dose for horses)?

veterinary formulations of some drugs are more accessible and cheaper than formulations FDA-approved for humans, so humans sometimes take veterinary formulations. this isn't, like, new, or something i was unaware of a year ago

[Travis B.]

Do you really think that the kind of people who would take ivermectin formulated for horses and livestock are the sort of people who would properly adjust the dosage so it provides an appropriate human dose, rather than the dose on the packaging (i.e. the dose for horses)?

veterinary formulations of some drugs are more accessible and cheaper than formulations FDA-approved for humans, so humans sometimes take veterinary formulations. this isn't, like, new, or something i was unaware of a year ago

The matter is not whether some people are capable of properly dosing veterinary formulations of ivermectin for humans, but rather of whether the many people who have just heard that ivermectin cures COVID are capable of doing so. The kind of people who just decide to take something because they heard that "oh such-and-such drug cures COVID!" are likely to be the kind of people who have no clue as to how to adjust doses of veterinary formulations.

[zompist]

Ivermectin is ineffective against COVID-19. The doses necessary to demonstrate in vitro antiviral effects are toxic. To make a case against treating COVID with ivermectin, you don't have to say anything false, you don't have to use repeated association to lead your audience to believe anything false, you don't have to strongly imply anything false, and you don't have to take any other action that, in both common and technical English, falls under the category of lying.

[...] No, the problem is that people are taking toxic doses of a thing that doesn't work.

You're making no sense. A bunch of news reports are reporting something true. A bunch of true things, in fact: that people are taking a parasite medication as an antiviral, that this is not known to work, that it's dangerous and can land you in the hospital. Telling true things, in both common and technical English, is called "not lying."

I'm guessing the real problem is that some people made the behavior look foolish? But how exactly do you want the authorities to talk to people who are doing dangerous things? Here's an actual FDA page on ivermectin. I honestly don't understand how you can object to that, and not to the people on your own side who are pushing their own people to do dangerous things.

The other problem is that people trust untrustworthy authorities because there are no trustworthy ones.

And yet you, somehow, managed to trust someone enough to accept that ''people are taking toxic doses of a thing that doesn't work."

I don't think there's been any magical time, at least in the last 150 years, when everyone in the country accepted some institution as completely trustworthy. Being angry at the newspapers, or TV, or academics, or the health authorities, is an age-old American pastime.

And one reason is that it's enormously profitable to spread disinformation.

[Talskubilos]

The matter is not whether some people are capable of properly dosing veterinary formulations of ivermectin for humans, but rather of whether the many people who have just heard that ivermectin cures COVID are capable of doing so. The kind of people who just decide to take something because they heard that "oh such-and-such drug cures COVID!" are likely to be the kind of people who have no clue as to how to adjust doses of veterinary formulations.

In fact, there're people who uses ketamine for recreational purposes in doses capable of knocking down a horse.

[WeepingElf]

So Talskubilos is not only a linguistic crackpot but also a COVID-19 denialist and an anti-vaxxer. Hardly surprising as people who are at odds with one science are often also at odds with others, as it is the scientific method itself they are unable to put up with. What will come next from him? Creationism? Climate change denial? Flat Earth?

[alice]

So because you position yourself as a dissident you are somehow automatically right, and those who oppose your thoroughly homicidal idiocy

Stop using these words! It's quite obvious you've been brainwashed.

No; they're Wanderwörter, and we'll keep using them. You should be grateful.

[Talskubilos]

No; they're Wanderwörter, and we'll keep using them. You should be grateful.

I suppose you live in Wonderland.

[Ares Land]

coronavirus pandemics have been an obvious possibility since at least SARS

As it happens, more than a possibility it's a certainity.

On the other hand, it's relevant to mention 9/11 and 7/7 coincided with anti-terrorism drills.

How are 9/11 and 7/7 relevant here?

And where exactly is the proof that COVID-19 is a psy-op? No, having pandemic contigency plans doesn't constitute "proof": contagious diseases aren't exactly an unprecedented thing.

I know you'll be taking this pretty badly... But that sort of thing is proof that the vaccine should just be mandatory. Nothing is ever going to convince you, or like-minded people to get it willingly.
(Sure, a mandatory vaccine would convince you your government is totalitarian -- but let's be honest, you were thinking that already, weren't you?)

And yet you, somehow, managed to trust someone enough to accept that ''people are taking toxic doses of a thing that doesn't work."

I don't think there's been any magical time, at least in the last 150 years, when everyone in the country accepted some institution as completely trustworthy. Being angry at the newspapers, or TV, or academics, or the health authorities, is an age-old American pastime.

And one reason is that it's enormously profitable to spread disinformation.

I know at heart opposition to vaccines is an issue of trust in the institutions. But I don't fully understand the logic.

I don't trust my government much myself. I'm suspicious of health authorities, newspapers and TV.
Even so, vaccines are a logical answer to a viral pandemic. We know antiviral drugs have always been a difficult proposition, and that miracle cures aren't likely to work. I followed the HCQ trials with some interest, and I think given the circumstances giving it a shot was reasonable, but it was soon pretty obvious that it was snake oil.

I don't think saying ivermectin is snake oil is any more insulting to people than reminding them that the nice Nigerian man in their email isn't actually going to send them a million dollars.

I actually agree with Nort that our elites are often, if not always, not too bright conformists (well, ours certainly are) but when they say the sky is blue, I don't go around claiming it's green. Again, vaccines are the obvious response to a viral pandemic and anyone with a few brain cells can figure that out, so yeah, it's no surprise that our elites, limited and unsatisfying as they are, figured that out too.

[Talskubilos]

How are 9/11 and 7/7 relevant here?

It's too much coincidence the real thing happened the very same day drills were carried out. Also Madrid's train bombings (11th March 2003) happened immediatedly after a NATO anti-terrorism exercise (4th-10th March).

And where exactly is the proof that COVID-19 is a psy-op?

Mass-media brainwashing, domiciliary arrests, curfews, masks, etc. They were designed to condition people's behaviour, and apparently they succeded with you.

No, having pandemic contigency plans doesn't constitute "proof": contagious diseases aren't exactly an unprecedented thing.

But COVID-19 was unprecedented in the psy-op part.

I know you'll be taking this pretty badly... But that sort of thing is proof that the vaccine should just be mandatory. Nothing is ever going to convince you, or like-minded people to get it willingly. (Sure, a mandatory vaccine would convince you your government is totalitarian -- but let's be honest, you were thinking that already, weren't you?)

As is said before, you've been brainwashed.

[Ares Land]

How are 9/11 and 7/7 relevant here?

It's too much coincidence the real thing happened the very same day drills were carried out. Also Madrid's train bombings (11th March 2003) happened immediatedly after a NATO anti-terrorism exercise (4th-10th March).

That doesn't answer my question, which was: how is this relevant to COVID?

As is said before, you've been brainwashed.

Brainwashed into what? Thinking vaccines are the answer to mass pandemics? There's no need for brainwashing. I only need to look up how small pox was eradicated, or why we don't have mass outbreaks of polio in the West anymore.

If COVID is a psy-op, then what's the objective?

[Talskubilos]

Brainwashed into what? Thinking vaccines are the answer to mass pandemics? There's no need for brainwashing. I only need to look up how small pox was eradicated, or why we don't have mass outbreaks of polio in the West anymore.

COVID-19 and polio have very little in common, among other things because until now there have been no effective vaccines against coronaviruses, even in animals (most coronaviruses cause zoonotic diseases). This explains why COVID-19 vaccines are in an experimental stage and can't be made mandatory.

If COVID is a psy-op, then what's the objective?

I think it has to do with the Climatic Change Agenda, now relabelled as 2030 Agenda, whose underlying conditions would be the depletion of oil reserves and the unsustainibility of the Western way of life extended to the Far East countries (mostly China): too many petrol cars, low-cost flights, etc. Some people think governments want to copy the Chinese political system by establishing a kind of social democratic dictatorship.

[Ares Land]

COVID-19 and polio have very little in common, among other things because until now there have been no effective vaccines against coronaviruses, even in animals (most coronaviruses cause zoonotic diseases). This explains why the COVID-19 vaccines are in an experimental stage and can't be made mandatory.

That can't be helped. There can be no vaccine until there's a vaccine. There was no polio vaccine before the polio vaccine either. I know many people would like to wait something like ten years but the pandemic is going on now.
We're at close to five million dead now, and almost two years of complete social disruption. That's ample justification for a mandatory vaccine. If there's any kind of alternative plan I'd love to hear about it.

I think it has to do with the Climatic Change Agenda, now relabelled as 2030 Agenda, whose underlying conditions would be the depletion of oil reserves and the unsustainibility of the Western way of life extended to the Far East countries (mostly China): too many petrol cars, low-cost flights, etc. Some people think governments want to copy the Chinese political system by establishing a kind of social democratic dictatorship.

Okay, let's check back in two years. I'm absolutely certain there'll be no social credit system to be seen. Also, nobody will have sprouted a third testicle because of the vaccines. (And we'll all have moved on to something else entirely.)