Zompist Bboard Again

Space60 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:43 pm How do.you pronounce "Antarctica" and "Arctic"? Do you pronounce the first "c"?

Those are among the words that I consciously chose to pronounce differently from my Dad because I thought his accent sounded uneducated. So basically he says them without the /k/, and I say them as spelled. Although he may have moved to the /k/ pronunciation by now as well; I cant be sure.

My originally acquired pronunciation of (-)arctic(-) is [ɑ˞ɾık]. I didn't think about it before Linguoboy brought it up, but I can flap the first t in Antarctic/Antarctica (I guess because the existence of Arctic makes the morphological boundary after the Ant- fairly clear). But I think I usually aspirate it. So [ænˈtʰɑ˞ɾıkʌ], [ˈɑ˞ɾık]. I also have a consciously acquired variant of these words with [kt], [ænˈtʰɑ˞ktıkʌ], [ˈɑ˞ktık]. I haven't made that big an effort to establish the pronunciation with [kt] over my original pronunciation, because at some point I looked it up and learned that the "c" was re-added to the spelling after the word had entered English. This was enough to make me feel fairly comfortable with using the pronunciation with [ɑ˞ɾık], even though I'm aware that it appears on many lists of allegedly "sloppy" or "erroneous" pronunciations.

Space60 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:43 pm How do.you pronounce "Antarctica" and "Arctic"? Do you pronounce the first "c"?

I say them [æntˢˈɑːk̚tˢɘkʰɐ] and [ˈɑːk̚tˢɘkʰɐ], with an unreleased [k̚].

I say [ɛ̃ˈtʰʌʁɘkə(ː)] and [ˈʌʁɾɘʔk]. I don't know why I have a [ɾ] in the latter but not in the former.

"Antarctica" and "Arctic" with a sounded first "c" is a spelling pronunciation like pronouncing the "th" in "clothes" or "t" in "often". I'm not saying that spelling pronunciations are a bad thing.

Estav wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:30 am My originally acquired pronunciation of (-)arctic(-) is [ɑ˞ɾık]. I didn't think about it before Linguoboy brought it up, but I can flap the first t in Antarctic/Antarctica (I guess because the existence of Arctic makes the morphological boundary after the Ant- fairly clear).

I don't even have a flap. At most, there's a glottal stop (perhaps on account of the clear morpheme boundary you mention), i.e. [æ̃ˀ] for the first syllable in allegro speech. Certainly the /n/ "feels" like it belongs to that syllable and not the following (as in anaphora, which can also have a shwa, something which sounds very odd in Antarctic).

As usual, I pronounced it* without /k/ for a long time (you can guess why), until I learned the -c- wasn't silent.

* Especially as part of the band name Sonata Arctica.

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:12 am As usual, I pronounced it* without /k/ for a long time (you can guess why), until I learned the -c- wasn't silent.

* Especially as part of the band name Sonata Arctica.

Sorry to break it to you, but the /k/ is silent in many English varieties... English dialects have more cluster reduction than one may give them credit for.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:50 pmSorry to break it to you, but the /k/ is silent in many English varieties... English dialects have more cluster reduction than one may give them credit for.

I remember getting flack in college for dropping the /t/ in sects. If I thought about it for a minute, I could come up with a passel of words that I had to memorise overpronuncations for in order to spell them kreckly--sorry, core-rect-lee.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:35 am

Estav wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:30 am My originally acquired pronunciation of (-)arctic(-) is [ɑ˞ɾık]. I didn't think about it before Linguoboy brought it up, but I can flap the first t in Antarctic/Antarctica (I guess because the existence of Arctic makes the morphological boundary after the Ant- fairly clear).

I don't even have a flap. At most, there's a glottal stop (perhaps on account of the clear morpheme boundary you mention), i.e. [æ̃ˀ] for the first syllable in allegro speech. Certainly the /n/ "feels" like it belongs to that syllable and not the following (as in anaphora, which can also have a shwa, something which sounds very odd in Antarctic).

Oh, I worded that sloppily. I should have written "flap the nt"; what I meant was that I can use a nasalized flap (which to me sounds like /n/, the same way non-nasal flaps sound like /d/) as in winter, so [æɾ̃ɑ˞ɾɪk]. I guess if I "paused" (psychologically, not literally) between the Ant- and -artic I can imagine saying [æ̃ʔɑ˞ɾɪk].

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:35 am

Estav wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:30 amMy originally acquired pronunciation of (-)arctic(-) is [ɑ˞ɾık]. I didn't think about it before Linguoboy brought it up, but I can flap the first t in Antarctic/Antarctica (I guess because the existence of Arctic makes the morphological boundary after the Ant- fairly clear).

I don't even have a flap. At most, there's a glottal stop (perhaps on account of the clear morpheme boundary you mention), i.e. [æ̃ˀ] for the first syllable in allegro speech. Certainly the /n/ "feels" like it belongs to that syllable and not the following (as in anaphora, which can also have a shwa, something which sounds very odd in Antarctic).

So you guys basically talk about the Arctic and Ant Arctica. Not surprising, the latter is definitely hospitable to ants.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:03 pmkreckly--sorry, core-rect-lee

Lovely.



Here's a couple more words for the thread: "alleged", "allegedly". Do you use regular /-dʒd/ or irregular /-dʒɪd/?

I think I've heard [əˈlɛdʒd] but [əˈlɛdʒɪdli] more often than not here, but I'm not really sure...

i see <alleged> as two different words. The verb has /dʒd/, the adjective has /dʒəd/. Same with two of the three pronunciations of <supposed>.

Space60 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:43 pm How do.you pronounce "Antarctica" and "Arctic"? Do you pronounce the first "c"?

In both cases, yes, but similarly to bradrn, the first [k] is unreleased in both. (Actually, I think the first [t] in "Antarctic" is also unreleased for me as well.)

Ser wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:39 pm Here's a couple more words for the thread: "alleged", "allegedly". Do you use regular /-dʒd/ or irregular /-dʒɪd/?

...come to think of it, for "alleged", I use the former [-dʒd] more when it's a verb and the latter [-dʒɪd] more if it's an adjective, but I think I use both interchangeably. But it's always [-dʒɪd] in "allegedly" for me.


(Note: while I am a native English speaker from the US, my English isn't entirely American English. And probably things have changed quite a bit since I've been living among mostly non-native speakers for the past 4.5 years.)

[ˈɒɹɽɨˀk], [ẽə̯̃ɾ̃ˈɒɹɽɨˀk]. /-arkt-/ is a spelling pronunciation. however, [kɚɹˈɛˀktɫɨj]

[ɫ̩ˈɛdʒd], [ɫ̩ˈɛdʒɨdɫɪj]. possibly [əɫ-]

doctor shark wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:55 pm

Ser wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:39 pm Here's a couple more words for the thread: "alleged", "allegedly". Do you use regular /-dʒd/ or irregular /-dʒɪd/?

...come to think of it, for "alleged", I use the former [-dʒd] more when it's a verb and the latter [-dʒɪd] more if it's an adjective, but I think I use both interchangeably. But it's always [-dʒɪd] in "allegedly" for me.

I’m pretty sure I do this as well.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:50 pm

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:12 am As usual, I pronounced it* without /k/ for a long time (you can guess why), until I learned the -c- wasn't silent.

* Especially as part of the band name Sonata Arctica.

Sorry to break it to you, but the /k/ is silent in many English varieties... English dialects have more cluster reduction than one may give them credit for.

It is not due to cluster reduction. Well going back far enough it is, but the reduction didn't take place in English. Pronouncing the first "c" in "Arctic" and "Antarctica" is a spelling pronunciation.

Bulb, multi-, gulf, bulk, ultra-. In particular, are gulf and golf homophones for you?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 4:41 pm Bulb, multi-, gulf, bulk, ultra-. In particular, are gulf and golf homophones for you?

bulb [bʌwb]
multi [mʌwtˢi-]
gulf [gʌwf]
bulk [bʌwk]
ultra- [ʌwtʃʷɻʷɐ-] (not sure about the exact value of that last vowel, but they’re clearly different)
golf [gowf] (not a homophone)

The [ʌw] sequences here seem to be unspecified for rounding in both sounds — I’ve recorded it as what seems to be my most common pronunciation. Interestingly, my vowels often have a separate allophone before vocalised /ɫ/, which is usually closer to than the usual realisation of the vowel.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 4:41 pm Bulb, multi-, gulf, bulk, ultra-. In particular, are gulf and golf homophones for you?

bulb [bɐɫb]
multi- [mɐɫtɪ]
ɡulf [ɡɐɫf]
bulk [bɐɫk]
ultra [ɐɫtʃɹə] ~ [ɐltʃɹə] (not sure of the vowel height of the second vowel)
ɡolf [ɡɒɫf] (so not a homophone)

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 4:41 pm In particular, are gulf and golf homophones for you?

no