Zompist Bboard Again

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:25 am will vs wollen. Clearly one is a tense and the other is a modal. Try to keep up! /s

Uh? German uses werden, not wollen and the construction is actually quite similar to future tense in English.

Ars Lande wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:10 am

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:25 am will vs wollen. Clearly one is a tense and the other is a modal. Try to keep up! /s

Uh? German uses werden, not wollen and the construction is actually quite similar to future tense in English.

But much less common, especially when you consider how frequent the going to construction is. Overuse of werden is one of the tells for a German speaker whose native language is English, IME.

Moose-tache's point about the arbitrariness of this distinction in Chen's dataset is well-taken, however. I'm not at all surprised that one dubious paper about the relationship of language to economic behaviour cites another equally dubious one.

"Coca-Cola" is still in use as the formal name for the drink usually called Coke however Pepsi is rarely referred to as "Pepsi-Cola" in speech or writing anymore. Is this because "coke" has multiple meanings whereas "Pepsi" can only refer to one thing?

Space60 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:20 pm"Coca-Cola" is still in use as the formal name for the drink usually called Coke however Pepsi is rarely referred to as "Pepsi-Cola" in speech or writing anymore. Is this because "coke" has multiple meanings whereas "Pepsi" can only refer to one thing?

"Coca-Cola" is just more euphonic.

Space60 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:20 pm "Coca-Cola" is still in use as the formal name for the drink usually called Coke however Pepsi is rarely referred to as "Pepsi-Cola" in speech or writing anymore. Is this because "coke" has multiple meanings whereas "Pepsi" can only refer to one thing?

The last time I heard "Pepsi-Cola" was the Godfather pastiche ad with the little girl who did the Pepsi ads in the late 90s...

Zaarin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:09 pm

Space60 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:20 pm "Coca-Cola" is still in use as the formal name for the drink usually called Coke however Pepsi is rarely referred to as "Pepsi-Cola" in speech or writing anymore. Is this because "coke" has multiple meanings whereas "Pepsi" can only refer to one thing?

The last time I heard "Pepsi-Cola" was the Godfather pastiche ad with the little girl who did the Pepsi ads in the late 90s...

This might be because "Pepsi" has only one meaning whereas "coke" has multiple meanings and so the "Cola" at the end of the name started to be seen as redundant.

Space60 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:18 pm

Zaarin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:09 pm

Space60 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:20 pm "Coca-Cola" is still in use as the formal name for the drink usually called Coke however Pepsi is rarely referred to as "Pepsi-Cola" in speech or writing anymore. Is this because "coke" has multiple meanings whereas "Pepsi" can only refer to one thing?

The last time I heard "Pepsi-Cola" was the Godfather pastiche ad with the little girl who did the Pepsi ads in the late 90s...

This might be because "Pepsi" has only one meaning whereas "coke" has multiple meanings and so the "Cola" at the end of the name started to be seen as redundant.

I also notice that one is called "Pepsi", but the other is never called "Coca".

Zaarin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:09 pm

Space60 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:20 pm "Coca-Cola" is still in use as the formal name for the drink usually called Coke however Pepsi is rarely referred to as "Pepsi-Cola" in speech or writing anymore. Is this because "coke" has multiple meanings whereas "Pepsi" can only refer to one thing?

The last time I heard "Pepsi-Cola" was the Godfather pastiche ad with the little girl who did the Pepsi ads in the late 90s...

There are only two times I can remember ever hearing "Pepsi-Cola."

One was in this/this song (they're the same song, just in two different languages, even though half the lyrics are in English in both versions...what can I say, I used to be desperate to find Indian songs online okay?).

The other was in this rhyme (this is the version I personally recall; I'm pretty sure they taught us this one in music class, which is kind of odd since they didn't teach a tune with it or anything. There are a lot of other versions out there, it seems):

Coca-Cola went to town.
Pepsi-Cola shot him down.
Dr. Pepper pepped him up.
Now he's drinking 7 Up.

Before 1961 "Pepsi-Cola" was the official name for the soda and was used in commercials for it all the time.

Ryan of Tinellb wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:15 pmI also notice that one is called "Pepsi", but the other is never called "Coca".

It depends on which language you're speaking. 'Coca' is the normal way to refer the drink in French.

MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:40 am

Ryan of Tinellb wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:15 pmI also notice that one is called "Pepsi", but the other is never called "Coca".

It depends on which language you're speaking. 'Coca' is the normal way to refer the drink in French.

Yes. I don't know of any varieties of English that have referred to the drink as "Coca" but Southern US dialects traditionally used "Co-Cola" alongside "Coke".

Mind you, traditionally in the South "coke" referred to soft drinks in general, not just Coca-Cola.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:54 pm Mind you, traditionally in the South "coke" referred to soft drinks in general, not just Coca-Cola.

Yeah, that's true. "Coke" was used to refer to soft drinks in general. To refer specifically to Coca-Cola, "Co-Cola" was used.

Unlike most nonrhotic varieties, traditional Southern US nonrhotic accents which are now nearly extinct lacked a linking r. "Car is" was pronounced with any [r]. Why is this? Were there historical British nonrhotic varieties that lacked a linking r or did Southern US accents do away with the linking r?

Space60 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:52 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:54 pm Mind you, traditionally in the South "coke" referred to soft drinks in general, not just Coca-Cola.

Yeah, that's true. "Coke" was used to refer to soft drinks in general. To refer specifically to Coca-Cola, "Co-Cola" was used.

Just one data point, but:

I live in Texas and while I've occasionally heard people say "coke" to mean "soft drink" (though this is not common where I live, at least, which is the suburbs north of Houston; "soda" and sometimes "soft drink" are more common IME [I don't think I've ever heard "(soda) pop" from someone who wasn't originally from a "pop" region], except that in a restaurant, "coke" is the default order when you indifferently want Coke or Pepsi, which seems to be the case elsewhere in the country), I've never heard "co'-cola" (and never heard of it until today, although I see Wiktionary lists some references). If I did hear it I'd assume the person who said it was about 80 years old and lived waaaaaay out in the sticks, and I suspect I'd be correct in that assumption. I obviously can't speak for other parts of the South though. (This map suggests it's currently extremely rare, and scattered around the South but maybe a bit more prevalent in the southeast specifically, and essentially absent from Texas, which would help explain me and [apparently] Vijay never hearing it. [Although technically this is a map for GENERIC terms for soft drinks, not for the name for Coca Cola, so I don't know if the results for that would be different...] It's interesting that "coke" is so geographically widespread in this survey, though...)

Yeah, I've never heard of Co-Cola. I also didn't know "coke" for a soft drink in general was that old.

Whimemsz wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:29 pm I've never heard "co'-cola" (and never heard of it until today, although I see Wiktionary lists some references). If I did hear it I'd assume the person who said it was about 80 years old and lived waaaaaay out in the sticks, and I suspect I'd be correct in that assumption. I obviously can't speak for other parts of the South though. (This map suggests it's currently extremely rare, and scattered around the South but maybe a bit more prevalent in the southeast specifically, and essentially absent from Texas, which would help explain me and [apparently] Vijay never hearing it. [Although technically this is a map for GENERIC terms for soft drinks, not for the name for Coca Cola, so I don't know if the results for that would be different...] It's interesting that "coke" is so geographically widespread in this survey, though...)

And note that the Harvard Dialect Survey was done back in 2003. "Co-Cola" is likely even rarer now I'd say.

To me "coke" can generically mean "cola". But maybe more accurately, it means "Coca-Cola, but I don't frigging care if all you have is some other cola."

Oh, that reminds me— in The Demolished Man, Alfred Bester uses "pepsi" for what we now call "earworms". Bester came up with the concept in 1951, while "earworm" didn't show up till the 1980s (calqued on German Ohrwurm, which is late '50s).

"Is Pepsi okay?" is a common question asked in restaurants that have Pepsi as their cola when someone asks for a Coke.