Zompist Bboard Again

Corumayas wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:22 pm I pronounce it with /æ/, and don't think I've ever heard it otherwise (from a native English speaker, anyway).

And yet there is Dame Edna Everage.

I have /ʃəˈkɔɡoʊ/ [ʃɘˈkʰɒːɡo(ː)] for Chicago myself, and I'm from Milwaukee, two hours north of Chicago.

The main variants on the pronunciation of Chicago I hear are [tʃʰ] instead of [ʃ] and [ɑ] instead of [ɒ]; the latter seems particularly common from actual Chicagoans, who frequently unround /ɔ/.

Corumayas wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:22 pm Perhaps related: at a family funeral in Columbus a few years ago, I was struck by hearing the pastor pronounce "Chicago" /ʃɪˈkɔgə/. Is this variation familiar to anyone else?

That is really oldschool. (To give you an idea just how classic it is, it's the pronunciation local columnist Mike Royko promoted in the 70s.)

So I'm still wrestling with the bizarre merger-in-process that is my rhotic vowels. Today I was singing to myself and I sang [ʃoɹli] for surely, which led to the realisation that:
(1) surely can merge with Shirley. (This is a source of stale jokes going back decades.)
(2) surely can just about merge with shore lee. (The difference lies in the stress.)
BUT
(3) shore lee can't ever merge with Shirley

Or can it? My ex used to claim that my shorts sounded like shirts, but to me they were always distinct. I just need to start recording myself I guess.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:49 pmOr can it? My ex used to claim that my shorts sounded like shirts, but to me they were always distinct. I just need to start recording myself I guess.

Learn Praat at the same time, and Qwynegold it away!

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:49 pm So I'm still wrestling with the bizarre merger-in-process that is my rhotic vowels. Today I was singing to myself and I sang [ʃoɹli] for surely, which led to the realisation that:
(1) surely can merge with Shirley. (This is a source of stale jokes going back decades.)
(2) surely can just about merge with shore lee. (The difference lies in the stress.)
BUT
(3) shore lee can't ever merge with Shirley

Common in AmE. /i̯ur/ > freeish variation between /jor/ and /jʌr/, but /ur/ > /or/. This has to be either pretty old or expanded by spelling pronunciation, since it precedes yod dropping and coalescence.

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:46 am

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:49 pm So I'm still wrestling with the bizarre merger-in-process that is my rhotic vowels. Today I was singing to myself and I sang [ʃoɹli] for surely, which led to the realisation that:
(1) surely can merge with Shirley. (This is a source of stale jokes going back decades.)
(2) surely can just about merge with shore lee. (The difference lies in the stress.)
BUT
(3) shore lee can't ever merge with Shirley

Common in AmE. /i̯ur/ > freeish variation between /jor/ and /jʌr/, but /ur/ > /or/. This has to be either pretty old or expanded by spelling pronunciation, since it precedes yod dropping and coalescence.

My dialect must be weird in that it consistently preserves /ur/ (not /jur/) with the sole exception being Moorland Road here in Waukesha county (which is pronounced with /ɔr/) - but this may be due to interference from Moreland Boulevard in the same area.

How do you pronounce the following:

"winter"
"wintry"
"disaster"
"disastrous"
"adult"
"grownup"
"teenager"
"lyre"
"liar"
"tire"
"tier" (one who ties)
"ketchup"
"syrup"
"confetti"
"medieval"

Space60 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:25 pm"lyre"
"liar"
"tire"
"tier" (one who ties)

Relatedly: "sear" vs. "seer", "tour" vs 'two-er".

For those who pronounce "mayor" without the -y-, at least sometimes, is it different from "mare"?

"winter" [ˈwɪn(t)ɜ]
"wintry" [ˈwɪn(t)ɜɻʷəi̯]
"disaster" [dɜˈzɐːstɜ]
"disastrous" [dɜˈzɐːstɜɻʷɜs] or -[ʈʂɜɻʷɜs]
"adult" [ˈædɜɫʷt]
"grownup" [ˈgɻʷɔˑy̯n.ɐp]
"teenager" [ˈtʰəˑi̯nˌæi̯ɖʐɜ]
"lyre" [ˈlɑˑ(e̯)ɜ̯]
"liar" [ˈlɑˑi̯ɜ] or maybe just [ˈlɑˑ(e̯)ɜ̯]
"tire" [ˈtɑˑ(e̯)ɜ̯]
"tier" (one who ties) (can't tell, either [ˈtɑˑ(e̯)ɜ̯] or [ˈtɑˑi̯ɜ])
"ketchup" [ˈkʰeʈʂˌɐp]
"syrup" [ˈsiɻʷɜp]
"confetti" [kʰɜnˈfeɾəi̯]
"medieval" [med(əi̯)ˈəˑi̯vɜɫʷ]
"sear" [sɪː]~[sɪə̯]
"seer" [səɪ̯ɜ̯]
"tour" [tʰʊː]
"two-er" [tʰʊʉ̯ɜ]

"winter" [ˈwɨntˢɜ]
"wintry" [ˈwɪnt͡ʂɻʷi]
"disaster" [dɨˈzɑstˢɜ]
"disastrous" [dɨˈzɑst͡ʂɻʷəs]
"adult" [ˈæɾəwtˢ]
"grownup" [ˈɡɻʷɞ͡ʉnɜpʰ]
"teenager" [ˈtˢiːnæ͡id͡ʒɜ]
"lyre" [ˈlɑ͡ijɜ]
"liar" [ˈlɑ͡ijɜ]
"tire" [ˈtˢɑjɜ]
"tier" [ˈtˢɑˑjɜ] (not sure if the length difference is real or imaginary)
"ketchup" [ˈkʰe̟t͡ʃʰɐpʰ]
"syrup" [ˈsɪɻʷəpʰ]
"confetti" [kʰənˈfe̟tˢi]
"medieval" [me̟ɾiˈiˑvu]
"sear" [ˈsijə]
"seer" [ˈsijə]
"tour" [ˈtˢu͡ə]
"two-er" [ˈtˢʉˑwɜ]

winter: [ˈwɘ̃ɾ̃ʁ̩(ː)]~[ˈwɘ̃ːʁ]
wintry: [ˈwɘ̃tʃɻ͡ʁi(ː)]
disaster: [tɘːˈzɛsʲtʲʁ̩(ː)]
disastrous: [tɘːˈzɛɕtɕɻ͡ʁɘs]
adult: [ɘːˈdʌɤ̯ʔ]
grownup: [ˈkʁʷõːnˌʌʔp]
teenager: [ˈtʰĩːnˌeːtʃʁ̩(ː)]
lyre: [ˈʟəːe̯ʁ̩(ː)]
liar: [ˈʟaːe̯ʁ̩(ː)]
tire: [ˈtʰəːe̯ʁ̩(ː)]
tier (one who ties): [ˈtʰaːe̯ʁ̩(ː)]
ketchup: [ˈkʰɜtʃəʔp]
syrup: [ˈsɪːʁəʔp]
confetti: [kʰn̩ˈfɜɾi(ː)]~[kʰn̩ˈfɜːi̯]
medieval: [mɘːˈdiːvɯ(ː)]
sear: [sɪ(ː)ʁ]
seer: [ˈsiːʁ̩(ː)]
tour: [tʰu(ː)ʁ]
two-er: [ˈtʰuːʁ̩(ː)]
mayor: [ˈmeːʁ̩(ː)]
mare: [ˈmɛ(ː)ʁ]

"winter" /wintər/
"wintry" /wint(ə)rɨ/
"disaster" /dɨˈzæstər/
"disastrous" /dɨˈzæstrəs/
"adult" /əˈdʌlt/
"grownup" /ˈgrʌwnˌʌp/
"teenager" /ˈtijnˌejdʒər/
"lyre" /lajər/
"liar" /lajər/
"tire" /tajər/
"tier" (one who ties) /tajər/ (but given aj-monophthongization this would probably be distinguished as [taːər] vs. [taːr] 'tire')
"ketchup" /ˈketʃəp/
"syrup" /ˈsʌrəp/
"confetti" /kənˈfetɨ/
"medieval" /mɨˈdijvəl/

"sear" and "seer" /sir/
"tour" /tor/
"two-er" /tuwər/
"mayor" /mejər/
"mare" /mer/

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:27 pm Chicago

I’ve always said it as [ʃɘˈkʰɑːɡɞ͡ʉ] (not that I ever need to say it!).

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:27 pmChicago

Zompist, a Chicagoan, once posted a recording here in which he very clearly pronounced it [ʃəˈkʰɔgoʊ], as Wiktionary mentions.

Ser wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:17 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:27 pmChicago

Zompist, a Chicagoan, once posted a recording here in which he very clearly pronounced it [ʃəˈkʰɔgoʊ], as Wiktionary mentions.

Phonemically, my own pronunciation is identical, i.e. /ʃəˈkɔɡoʊ/; note that I realize this as [ʃɘˈkʰɒːɡo(ː)]. My mother, who is from Kenosha originally, has [ɑː] (not [aː]) instead of [ɒː], and many people from the Chicago area, per my observation, also have this pronunciation.

I always pronounced the first vowel as [ɪ]. As for the second I have the caught-cot merger; I don't know exactly how this is realised as I can't hear a difference between those vowels. Last syllable [ɡoʊ]

I too pronounce the first vowel as [ɪ]. The '-cago' portion of the word I pronounce identically to the word 'cargo' in my non-rhotic, Welshy accent.

Jonlang wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:38 am I too pronounce the first vowel as [ɪ]. The '-cago' portion of the word I pronounce identically to the word 'cargo' in my non-rhotic, Welshy accent.

See, I hear the first vowel in Chicago as "/ɪ/" - but in fact the vowel is lower and more central than actual [ɪ], and when unstressed it does not phonemically contrast with /ə/ (the distribution of unstressed [ɘ] versus [ə] is complex enough to mislead one into thinking they might perhaps contrast, when in fact they do not).