Zompist Bboard Again

For a while now (some years, in fact) I have been sporadically posting about my project - my so-called "PQL" conlang family (for which I still don't have names!) Until recently I hadn't any actual idea of what would become of these languages. Just before Christmas I visited family and I was reminded of a family story. This story has been the inspiration for my conworlding project which is just a reason or justification for the conlanging.

Back in 1992, when I was about 5 years old, my great-grandmother (the last remaining one) died. My grandparents (then in their 40s) and my parents (then in their 20s) then had to make ready her house to sell. In the process they discovered a small box buried in the garden, not too deep, which contained a journal (with no mention of a year to date it), some drawings of flowers on cards labelled with their name, a copy of the Bible, and a ring. After some researching no-one could find the owner of these artefacts and we're 99% sure that they aren't from our family.

The journal and flower-cards, are all written in Welsh in a very old-fashioned cursive script - very beautiful but almost impossible to read (the Bible is in Welsh, too). Seeing as no-one in the family now spoke Welsh (the now deceased great-grandmother being the last family member to be L1 Welsh) the journal was indecipherable. My grandfather decided to go to an elderly woman in his street who was a Welsh-speaker and familiar with the handwriting style (indeed, she had been a Welsh medium teacher in her day). She dictated translations for him every day until the journal was done, which he hand-wrote because tablets weren't a thing in 1992. (It turns out that the journal wasn't anything of great interest, but they thought it may help to discover its author if they translated it.) The flower-cards are gorgeous, they're now framed and hang in my grandparents' house; they're roughly the size of tarot cards, with very delicate drawing of flowers in what I think is pencil with faint colouring.

Anyway – this story has inspired a project. The conceit is that I find a book buried in my own garden, an ancient looking thing covered in letters which look like nothing I've ever seen - certainly nothing which we could call "European". After being in possession of this book for a few days I find that I can read the strange script - and understand the language in which it is written. So I decide to translate it. It is a book written by a great lore-master of the ancient world - more ancient than Ancient Greece - from a world so old there's barely anything left of it. The book contains an account of the Earth's creation (as they held it to be) as well as legends involving gods and heroes, and documentation on customs, languages, calendars, etc. I have decided to translate this tome and present it, like the original, in a single volume. Whether I ever get time to actually realise this vision is another matter entirely. I've written many short stories over the years, one of my favourites is my own version of the tragedy of Gelert the hound, which could easily be turned to be included within the same world of connected mythic stories. How, exactly, I connect this "lost world" to the modern world I have not yet decided, that may be some years away yet. But now that I have an idea for a home for my conlangs I am more eager than ever to finish them.

Just thought I'd share the story.

Sounds very poetic. Good luck!

I like it very much.

The world doesn't have enough Voynich Manuscripts. Looking forward to this.

A mythology for England Wales.

It's great! Are you going to produce "feelies" for it such as the aforementioned flower-cards?

Vilike wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:55 am A mythology for England Wales.

It's great! Are you going to produce "feelies" for it such as the aforementioned flower-cards?

Not quite for Wales, we already have a decent mythology, more like a mythology for Britain, but I'm not really interested in that so much. I have no idea how it could tie into the real world.

As for "feelies"... I doubt it. I cannot draw nor write calligraphy - two skills needed to produce something as beautiful as the flower cards. I may be able to reproduce the actual flower cards digitally, clean them up and whatnot but who knows?

Even so, I'd be interested in seeing more. The cards remind me oddly specifically of something I homebrewed for a Dungeons and Dragons campaign once.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:50 am Even so, I'd be interested in seeing more. The cards remind me oddly specifically of something I homebrewed for a Dungeons and Dragons campaign once.

They look to me very much like they may have been made in the 18th or 19th Century, but we believe they're by the author of the journal, which seems to be early 20th Century. Maybe she was attempting to mimic something herself - drawings from a botanical book perhaps? We'll never know. We've always called them "cards" but I've no idea if they are card or paper or what, I've only seen them in their frames. I do really like them though.

They look something like this:



Except the colour is very very faint and the paper/card is more a sandy brown colour.

Jonlang wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:05 pm They look to me very much like they may have been made in the 18th or 19th Century, but we believe they're by the author of the journal, which seems to be early 20th Century. Maybe she was attempting to mimic something herself - drawings from a botanical book perhaps?

That's quite possible. I understand books of botanical illustrations were popular during the Nineteenth Century, and there would presumably have still been quite a few around by the early Twentieth.

We've always called them "cards" but I've no idea if they are card or paper or what, I've only seen them in their frames. I do really like them though.

I can well imagine. I would've liked to have something like that, too.

They look something like this:
...
Except the colour is very very faint and the paper/card is more a sandy brown colour.

I imagine some of this might be owing to age, but they sound very nice either way.

Jonlang wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:05 pm

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:50 am Even so, I'd be interested in seeing more. The cards remind me oddly specifically of something I homebrewed for a Dungeons and Dragons campaign once.

They look to me very much like they may have been made in the 18th or 19th Century, but we believe they're by the author of the journal, which seems to be early 20th Century. Maybe she was attempting to mimic something herself - drawings from a botanical book perhaps? We'll never know. We've always called them "cards" but I've no idea if they are card or paper or what, I've only seen them in their frames. I do really like them though.

They look something like this:



Except the colour is very very faint and the paper/card is more a sandy brown colour.

What is your language creation name anyway, what do you want with that choice if you don’t want to share your work?

JANKO GORENC wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 8:58 pmWhat is your language creation name anyway, what do you want with that choice if you don’t want to share your work?

I haven't given the languages names yet. It's something I just haven't gotten around to doing because the languages themselves keep getting heavily revised as I learn new things and become better at it. At the same time I have a vision for what I want these languages to be, so instead of scrapping them and starting over I just heavily edit what I've done. For some time now I have referred to the conlang project as "PQL" - the letters loosely represent the natlangs which inspired each conlang - "P" is inspired by P-Celtic (Welsh, Cornish, Breton - mostly Welsh), "Q" by Q-Celtic (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx - mostly Irish), and "L" by Latin. All three of these are derived from Proto-PQL. I also have a sketch for another conlang family called "NEG" - "N" is inspired by Old Norse, "E" by Old English/Anglo-Saxon, and "G" by Gothic.

As for the other part of your question, I don't understand what you're asking.

Jonlang wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:16 am For some time now I have referred to the conlang project as "PQL" - the letters loosely represent the natlangs which inspired each conlang - "P" is inspired by P-Celtic (Welsh, Cornish, Breton - mostly Welsh), "Q" by Q-Celtic (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx - mostly Irish), and "L" by Latin.

So… Italo-Celtic?

I also have a sketch for another conlang family called "NEG" - "N" is inspired by Old Norse, "E" by Old English/Anglo-Saxon, and "G" by Gothic.

…and Germanic?

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:42 am

Jonlang wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:16 am For some time now I have referred to the conlang project as "PQL" - the letters loosely represent the natlangs which inspired each conlang - "P" is inspired by P-Celtic (Welsh, Cornish, Breton - mostly Welsh), "Q" by Q-Celtic (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx - mostly Irish), and "L" by Latin.

So… Italo-Celtic?

I also have a sketch for another conlang family called "NEG" - "N" is inspired by Old Norse, "E" by Old English/Anglo-Saxon, and "G" by Gothic.

…and Germanic?

I believe he did mention that they were not specifically European-languages, so they were probably just inspired by them, not actually members of the family.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:38 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:42 am

Jonlang wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:16 am For some time now I have referred to the conlang project as "PQL" - the letters loosely represent the natlangs which inspired each conlang - "P" is inspired by P-Celtic (Welsh, Cornish, Breton - mostly Welsh), "Q" by Q-Celtic (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx - mostly Irish), and "L" by Latin.

So… Italo-Celtic?

I also have a sketch for another conlang family called "NEG" - "N" is inspired by Old Norse, "E" by Old English/Anglo-Saxon, and "G" by Gothic.

…and Germanic?

I believe he did mention that they were not specifically European-languages, so they were probably just inspired by them, not actually members of the family.

My point is that there are well-recognised names for the combinations ‘P-Celtic+Q-Celtic+Latin’ and ‘Old Norse+Old English+Gothic’, which would be a lot easier to understand than ‘PQL’ and ‘NEG’. Why not just call them something like ‘pseudo–Italo-Celtic‘ and ‘pseudo-Germanic’?

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:32 am My point is that there are well-recognised names for the combinations ‘P-Celtic+Q-Celtic+Latin’ and ‘Old Norse+Old English+Gothic’, which would be a lot easier to understand than ‘PQL’ and ‘NEG’. Why not just call them something like ‘pseudo–Italo-Celtic‘ and ‘pseudo-Germanic’?

I think it helps not being burdened by silent expectations of what direction the project should go: after all the mentioned natlangs are simply an inspiration.
(And you could later derive "real names" for those families starting from the abbreviations, such as "Piqqelian" and/or "Necgic")

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:32 am

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:38 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:42 am

So… Italo-Celtic?



…and Germanic?

I believe he did mention that they were not specifically European-languages, so they were probably just inspired by them, not actually members of the family.

My point is that there are well-recognised names for the combinations ‘P-Celtic+Q-Celtic+Latin’ and ‘Old Norse+Old English+Gothic’, which would be a lot easier to understand than ‘PQL’ and ‘NEG’. Why not just call them something like ‘pseudo–Italo-Celtic‘ and ‘pseudo-Germanic’?

Because PQL and NEG are easier to write for my own notes - why on earth would I write "P-Celtic" every time I want to refer to it?. Seeing as they are only inspired by natlangs and not related to them, using natlang names as place-holders is less helpful than just a letter.

what is your thread? You'll make your own conlang? You'll also create words, sentences?

What is that supposed to mean?

JANKO GORENC wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:09 pm Please stop sending your threads to ZBB.

Did you perhaps post this to the wrong thread by accident?

JANKO GORENC wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:09 pm Jonlang stop sending your threads to ZBB.

Why on Earth should he stop posting here? It’s on-topic for the subforum, and obviously other members are interested.