Zompist Bboard Again

Queen Elizabeth passed away today at the age of 96.

Rest in peace, Queen Elizabeth.

Somehow I just can't picture King Charles III as the King like how Queen Elizabeth II was the Queen, without qualification.

this would be the perfect time for the uk to abolish the monarchy, considering it's the twenty-first fucking century

Emily wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:01 pm this would be the perfect time for the uk to abolish the monarchy, considering it's the twenty-first fucking century

At least this should hasten the day. Elizabeth II had a tremendous gift for diplomacy and was always personally popular even when the British royals weren't. But Charles, well, he's one of the reasons why the British royals became unpopular. I figure if they had any sense, they'd skip right to William; the fact that they chose not to should be another fat nail in the coffin.

I don't believe there's a legal mechanism by which he could be skipped without an act of Parliament. That said, I shouldn't be surprised if he abdicates shortly, probably once the time of public mourning is past. He certainly doesn't have his mother's temperament, and a young ruler does have a sort of pleasant fairy-tale quality to it that this not-very-well-liked old man does not.

I also incidentally don't personally object to the existence of constitutional monarchy in principle any more than I object to anybody else keeping around shiny antiques they happen to like (or at least that happen to not offend them, and that can be comforting even if they are rather silly), though I also would understand giving up on this one now, since the queen is now gone. A part of me also tends to imagine it helps to keep the traditionalists from being too tradtionalist, seeing as the fancy institutions are right where they've always been, but I don't know of any evidential basis for this.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:32 pmA part of me also tends to imagine it helps to keep the traditionalists from being too tradtionalist, seeing as the fancy institutions are right where they've always been, but I don't know of any evidential basis for this.

I think it's at least if not more likely that keeping those institutions in plain view emboldens them--especially when they're using their role to get away with doing blatantly racist shit.

That would also not surprise me terribly.

I fully support the queen's decision to die in protest of the selection of Liz Truss as Prime Minister.

As for abolishing the monarchy, it's literally always a good time. Charles sucks, and I think the patina on William is going to start flaking off as well (that trip to the Caribbean didn't exactly make him look good). My guess is that George will "abdicate," donate a palace or two to the state, and keep all the money and land rents. Who wouldn't want to be an ordinary plutocrat in this world?

Now that whole "Died in protest of Liz Truss" thing is in rather poor taste.

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:47 pmAs for abolishing the monarchy, it's literally always a good time. Charles sucks, and I think the patina on William is going to start flaking off as well (that trip to the Caribbean didn't exactly make him look good). My guess is that George will "abdicate," donate a palace or two to the state, and keep all the money and land rents. Who wouldn't want to be an ordinary plutocrat in this world?

Sounds about white. I'm sure he'll miss exercising King's consent to protect his pet projects but maybe his son can put in a good word for him. What's the point of having children if you can't ask them to intervene with Parliament on your behalf now and then?

OK, you're gonna come at me for jokes in bad taste, when the next jubilee Elizabeth was scheduled to celebrate was the oak jubilee?!? As in, the stuff they make coffins out of! Do you have any idea how many jokes I left on the table? DO YOU?!?

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:13 pm OK, you're gonna come at me for jokes in bad taste, when the next jubilee Elizabeth was scheduled to celebrate was the oak jubilee?!? As in, the stuff they make coffins out of! Do you have any idea how many jokes I left on the table? DO YOU?!?

Do you suppose this would somehow make me think something was less in poor taste. Also, "Died in protest of Liz Truss" is hardly original, and I would hardly say opining on a joke being in poor taste is "coming at you".

When Elizabeth arrived in Hell, the Devil gave her a choice.
"I will let you choose what age you will be for eternity. You can have the body you have now, or I can make you young and healthy again."
"If I am old, will my bone still creak?"
"Like rusty hinges."
"And those trident holes will take longer to heal, I take it?"
"They'll bark like dogs when the weather is bad."
"And I take it I won't get any naps between torments?"
"You'll need to stay alert at all times. And you'll see every crease and wrinkle when you look in the mirror."
"OK. I just have one more question. Is my son on your list?"
"Oh, yes."
"Make me old."

Having a largely ceremonial head of state is so useful many republics have replicated the feature. That's for the Brits to decide, but I don't really see the point of abolishing the monarchy -- Britain would just end up with some mouldy old Tory as president. I don't really see how President Gove would be an improvement over King Charles III.

Let's not over-idealize republics either. The British royals certainly did and say some bad things, but believe me, that's peanuts compared to what the various French presidents' been up to during that time.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:32 pm I don't believe there's a legal mechanism by which he could be skipped without an act of Parliament. That said, I shouldn't be surprised if he abdicates shortly, probably once the time of public mourning is past. He certainly doesn't have his mother's temperament, and a young ruler does have a sort of pleasant fairy-tale quality to it that this not-very-well-liked old man does not.

I also incidentally don't personally object to the existence of constitutional monarchy in principle any more than I object to anybody else keeping around shiny antiques they happen to like (or at least that happen to not offend them, and that can be comforting even if they are rather silly), though I also would understand giving up on this one now, since the queen is now gone. A part of me also tends to imagine it helps to keep the traditionalists from being too tradtionalist, seeing as the fancy institutions are right where they've always been, but I don't know of any evidential basis for this.

The last time a British monarch abdicated was a complicated mess, because the UK is in a personal union with some of its other realms: the unwritten British constitution does not provide a direct mechanism for abdication, so this required an ad-hoc act of Parliament ratified by the UK and the then-semi-independent dominions (Canada, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and Ireland). When they introduced the law that modified the order of succession to provide equality between men and women*, that had to be ratified as well by the other realms before it could take effect.

Also, William's not a spring chicken either: he's 40, so definitely a far cry from Elizabeth's accession at 26.

That said, I think rumblings about abolishing the monarchy will increase, especially in some places, once the smoke settles: Elizabeth was extremely popular, and the rest of her family less so in recent years...

Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:02 am Having a largely ceremonial head of state is so useful many republics have replicated the feature. That's for the Brits to decide, but I don't really see the point of abolishing the monarchy -- Britain would just end up with some mouldy old Tory as president. I don't really see how President Gove would be an improvement over King Charles III.

Let's not over-idealize republics either. The British royals certainly did and say some bad things, but believe me, that's peanuts compared to what the various French presidents' been up to during that time.

I think there's also quite a difference between the monarchy as an institution and the monarch as a person. And it is true: many European countries have exceptionally weak presidents, the main exception being France (and even there, it's not a "strong presidency" like in the US), so I get the idea of "monarch, president, what's the difference". But at least here in the Netherlands, the Dutch royal family's behavior on occasion has been less than stellar, and even still the rumblings aren't that strong yet...

doctor shark wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:26 am Also, William's not a spring chicken either: he's 40, so definitely a far cry from Elizabeth's accession at 26.

Oh god that always makes me feel old. I always think of William and Harry as teenagers.
([Prince CharlesKing Charles's about my mother's age. I'm about Harry's age; my kids are in the same age brackets as William and Harry's kids. The royal family's a perpetual reminder that I'm not a spring chicken myself!)

For some reason the British royals have always been very popular in France. Even communist politicians seem genuinely moved today!

Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:19 am Oh god that always makes me feel old. I always think of William and Harry as teenagers.
([Prince CharlesKing Charles's about my mother's age. I'm about Harry's age; my kids are in the same age brackets as William and Harry's kids. The royal family's a perpetual reminder that I'm not a spring chicken myself!)

It's even weirder in the case of my family: my late grandmother was born in the same year as Elizabeth; my mother was born in the same year as Charles; and I was born in the same year as William.

doctor shark wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:26 am [clarification of a convoluted mess]

I was aware of that, but I hadn't thought about how it would affect all the other countries of which she used to be Queen.

Also, William's not a spring chicken either: he's 40, so definitely a far cry from Elizabeth's accession at 26.

This also makes me feel like a ripe old 34.

That said, I think rumblings about abolishing the monarchy will increase, especially in some places, once the smoke settles: Elizabeth was extremely popular, and the rest of her family less so in recent years...

I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't know if abolition will actually go through anywhere.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:02 am Having a largely ceremonial head of state is so useful many republics have replicated the feature. That's for the Brits to decide, but I don't really see the point of abolishing the monarchy -- Britain would just end up with some mouldy old Tory as president. I don't really see how President Gove would be an improvement over King Charles III.

Let's not over-idealize republics either. The British royals certainly did and say some bad things, but believe me, that's peanuts compared to what the various French presidents' been up to during that time.

I tend to agree with this, but it's for the British (and Canadian, Australian, et. al.) public(s) to decide in the end.

Somehow, for all its faults, replacing the monarchy with a random Tory, as mentioned, does not seem like it would be an improvement. Yes, the royal family largely lives in privilege off the public dime, and one could count this against them, but somehow I do not see the UK (or whatever they'd rename it, post-monarchy) really adopting the model of, say, Germany, of having a largely apolitical ceremonial president, even though if they would truly adopt this model I would be for it.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:08 am Somehow, for all its faults, replacing the monarchy with a random Tory, as mentioned, does not seem like it would be an improvement. Yes, the royal family largely lives in privilege off the public dime, and one could count this against them, but somehow I do not see the UK (or whatever they'd rename it, post-monarchy) really adopting the model of, say, Germany, of having a largely apolitical ceremonial president, even though if they would truly adopt this model I would be for it.

why would you have to "replace" the monarchy with a different position. can't you just get rid of it and all the silly laws saying the queen king has to give the prime minister permission to go to the bathroom or whatever