Page 1 of 1
The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:35 pm
by Space60
Why is the vowel in "work" always rhotic in Boston, New York, and AAVE accents even among speakers who are nonrhotic elsewhere?
I have heard various speakers of these nonrhotic American varieties and something I have noticed is that they will consistently pronounce words like "work" rhotically even if they are completely or variably nonrhotic elsewhere.
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:48 pm
by Travis B.
Space60 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:35 pm
Why is the vowel in "work" always rhotic in Boston, New York, and AAVE accents even among speakers who are nonrhotic elsewhere?
I have heard various speakers of these nonrhotic American varieties and something I have noticed is that they will consistently pronounce words like "work" rhotically even if they are completely or variably nonrhotic elsewhere.
It should be remembered that even in non-NAE non-rhotic varieties the NURSE vowel generally remains distinct (even though there are dialects which merge it with things such as SQUARE).
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:09 pm
by Space60
Travis B. wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:48 pm
Space60 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:35 pm
Why is the vowel in "work" always rhotic in Boston, New York, and AAVE accents even among speakers who are nonrhotic elsewhere?
I have heard various speakers of these nonrhotic American varieties and something I have noticed is that they will consistently pronounce words like "work" rhotically even if they are completely or variably nonrhotic elsewhere.
It should be remembered that even in non-NAE non-rhotic varieties the NURSE vowel generally remains distinct (even though there are dialects which merge it with things such as SQUARE).
Yes, it doesn't merge with anything, but they pronounce it with a nonrhotic vowel, whereas nonrhotic speakers of New York, Boston, and AAVE varieties consistently use a rhoticized vowel in NURSE (sounding no different from how completely rhotic speakers pronounce NURSE) even when they are completely or variably nonrhotic elsewhere.
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:40 am
by anteallach
In New York, of course, the traditional dialect had a distinct and non-rhotic realisation of NURSE, the [ɜɪ] diphthong with a tendency to merge with CHOICE. (Is that completely extinct?) It's not surprising given the general rhotic environment that as that distinctive realisation faded away it was replaced with the GenAm rhoticised vowel rather than an alternative non-rhotic version.
Some other areas also had [ɜɪ] so perhaps a similar explanation works elsewhere too, but I doubt it explains Boston.
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:33 pm
by Emily
thought i read somewhere that the traditional non-rhotic vowel in that environment was lost midcentury due to the stigma against it (look for example at the way it's used in the three stooges) but i don't remember where i read that
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:57 pm
by Ryusenshi
anteallach wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:40 am
In New York, of course, the traditional dialect had a distinct and non-rhotic realisation of NURSE, the [ɜɪ] diphthong with a tendency to merge with CHOICE. (Is that completely extinct?)
Well, it's hard to say when a feature is completely extinct (there's always a 90-year-old person somewhere), but I doubt you'll hear the curl-coil merger from anyone born after WWII. The stigma against it may have accelerated its demise.
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:59 pm
by Rounin Ryuuji
I had one elderly relation with the curl-coil merger, but lost contact with them ages ago.
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 2:58 pm
by Space60
Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:59 pm
I had one elderly relation with the curl-coil merger, but lost contact with them ages ago.
I have heard the curl-coil merger in TV and radio commercials a long time ago, however I think the people were just putting on an accent. I don't know if I have ever heard anyone who naturally spoke like that.
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:59 pm
by Ryusenshi
Mel Brooks, for instance, has it: he uses it even in interviews, so I think it's his natural pronunciation. Of course, he's elderly now. [ɜɪ] for NURSE also used to appear in New Orleans, weirdly enough.
Other examples of people putting on an accent: Bugs Bunny and Tweety in the old cartoons (their voice actor Mel Blanc comes from San Francisco). John Fogerty from Creedence Clearwater Revival also uses the curl-coil merger, for instance in the chorus of "Proud Mary": "big wheels keep on t[ɔɪ]nin', Proud Mary keep on b[ɔɪ]nin'". He's from the Bay Area so it's obviously an affectation.
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:11 pm
by Travis B.
On this note, how much has dialect leveling really affected New York English these days? (I don't know, as I've never been there, and the only person I know who's lived anywhere near there is my sister, who lived for a while out on Long Island.)
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:51 pm
by Arzena
Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:11 pm
On this note, how much has dialect leveling really affected New York English these days? (I don't know, as I've never been there, and the only person I know who's lived anywhere near there is my sister, who lived for a while out on Long Island.)
When I visited in July 2021, the WATER and COFFEE vowels stood out to me as unique phonemes (my English idiolect is a mixture of West Coast and Texan dialects).
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:03 pm
by Ryusenshi
Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:11 pm
On this note, how much has dialect leveling really affected New York English these days? (I don't know, as I've never been there, and the only person I know who's lived anywhere near there is my sister, who lived for a while out on Long Island.)
I went there a few years ago. Of course, I'm not a professional, and I don't really have a good ear for accents. There's still a certain... I don't know, voice quality, that I associate with the accent, something slightly shrill and nasal, even for people with an otherwise low voice; it's far from universal, though. Non-rhoticity is receding but not exactly extinct. The distinctive THOUGHT vowel [ɔə] is alive and well: I doubt the
cot-caught merger will take over New York anytime soon.
The strongest accent I heard was from two cops. I also remember an old African-American guy who spoke AAVE with a few noticeable New York features: non-rhotic with consistent linking and intrusive R, and a very high [oə] for THOUGHT.
Re: The "work" vowel in Boston, New York and AAVE accents.
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:19 pm
by Space60
Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:03 pm
Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:11 pm
On this note, how much has dialect leveling really affected New York English these days? (I don't know, as I've never been there, and the only person I know who's lived anywhere near there is my sister, who lived for a while out on Long Island.)
I went there a few years ago. Of course, I'm not a professional, and I don't really have a good ear for accents. There's still a certain... I don't know, voice quality, that I associate with the accent, something slightly shrill and nasal, even for people with an otherwise low voice; it's far from universal, though. Non-rhoticity is receding but not exactly extinct. The distinctive THOUGHT vowel [ɔə] is alive and well: I doubt the
cot-caught merger will take over New York anytime soon.
The strongest accent I heard was from two cops. I also remember an old African-American guy who spoke AAVE with a few noticeable New York features: non-rhotic with consistent linking and intrusive R, and a very high [oə] for THOUGHT.
Yes, the high THOUGHT vowel, the preservation of the Mary-marry-merry distinction, and "ahr" in words like "Florida", "horrible", and "horror" are the distinctive features of the New York accent that survive to the present day. Many New Yorkers these days are variably nonrhotic. They may use nonrhotic pronunciation, but they don't use it consistently.