Zompist Bboard Again

Are there at all similar discussions about this in say Basque as with the passive voice in English?

Owain wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 6:45 am Are there at all similar discussions about this in say Basque as with the passive voice in English?

I can't speak for Basque, nor for any other ergative language, but I don't think so. The passive voice in officialese, after all, serves to eliminate the agent, as in a politician's statement about his plagiarized doctoral thesis, 'It has been plagiarized', and that's entirely not what an antipassive does.

Umm the antipassive voice is to remove the object, which only has in common with the passive voice the fact that it reduces a verb's valency by one by eliminating a core argument.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 5:29 pm Umm the antipassive voice is to remove the object, which only has in common with the passive voice the fact that it reduces a verb's valency by one by eliminating a core argument.

Indeed. The two voices are very nearly opposites, both syntactically and semantically.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:07 am

Owain wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 6:45 am Are there at all similar discussions about this in say Basque as with the passive voice in English?

I can't speak for Basque, nor for any other ergative language, but I don't think so. The passive voice in officialese, after all, serves to eliminate the agent, as in a politician's statement about his plagiarized doctoral thesis, 'It has been plagiarized', and that's entirely not what an antipassive does.

I'd imagine that the potential for controversy would be that the antipassive often also downplays the affectedness of the object. It's not uncommon for antipassives to be less telic / more activities than accomplishments, be preferred with non-specific patients etc. So not denying responsibility, but downplaying the consequences of the action.