Zompist Bboard Again

We know the elcari use metaphor, in the sense that they use language in a way that approximates human usage, even if it's not really identical. So the term nmurthankh doesn't just mean any being who is mean and nasty to the elcari, but rather a particular group of beings that have all kinds of social and cultural associations that aren't captured by the literal name. Is this right? Or do they imagine this differently, and maybe nmurthankh has more of the air of a spontaneous, nonce coinage, that an elcar might use when talking to a human, and they know how much humans rely on this kind of conventional designation?

One thing that interests me about elcarin culture, which appears to have something of a lack of respect for the natural world, is that their personal names all appear to be natural phenomena. But their names are just metaphors in the same way, right? The average elcar probably doesn't think too much about the "meaning" in some abstract way of their family and acquaintance's names - or would they? Are they totemic at all (e.g. Nightwind behaves in some way that you might associate with the night wind)? Or are they just conventional strings of sounds, in the same way that qeb(V)t refers to an entity that is understood in the right pragmatic context? Or something in between, to an elcar?

So Haleza Grise wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:45 pm We know the elcari use metaphor, in the sense that they use language in a way that approximates human usage, even if it's not really identical. So the term nmurthankh doesn't just mean any being who is mean and nasty to the elcari, but rather a particular group of beings that have all kinds of social and cultural associations that aren't captured by the literal name. Is this right? Or do they imagine this differently, and maybe nmurthankh has more of the air of a spontaneous, nonce coinage, that an elcar might use when talking to a human, and they know how much humans rely on this kind of conventional designation?

It's possible I've forgotten something I said before about the elcari, in which case you can remind me. Otherwise I assume this is based on the grammar, where I say they're not into abstract pursuits (like epistemology, or deconstruction, or political science). But it's not that they can't understand abstract concepts, or that they use words in a way we wouldn't understand. Their words tend to be more specific, but they're just as conventional as ours. Nmurthankh has been lexicalized to refer to the murtani.

One thing that interests me about elcarin culture, which appears to have something of a lack of respect for the natural world, is that their personal names all appear to be natural phenomena. But their names are just metaphors in the same way, right? The average elcar probably doesn't think too much about the "meaning" in some abstract way of their family and acquaintance's names - or would they? Are they totemic at all (e.g. Nightwind behaves in some way that you might associate with the night wind)? Or are they just conventional strings of sounds, in the same way that qeb(V)t refers to an entity that is understood in the right pragmatic context? Or something in between, to an elcar?

They don't take the names in any animistic sense. The main difference from most European names is that most elcarin names are transparent in meaning-- there's no mystery about what Shikhpêt means. Some elcari might feel that their name reflects them in some way, some feel the opposite, and some don't care.

Thanks, this all makes sense. Not sure if I was thinking about the elcari specifically from a long time ago or more generally about how non-humans approach names. I think I did forget that they specifically use words chosen by Khemthu-Nor, so they would be careful not to innovate in semantic terms - a word just means what it means! Now get back to the smelter!