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Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:16 pm
by alice
I was idly thinking about a featural conscript which used the simplest shapes - circle, triangle, and square - to represent /p t k/, and began to wonder which would be which. Then it occurred to me: why not ask the ZBB? So, what do you think? Which shape fits which phoneme, and why? Obviously there's no right answer, but the reasoning might be very interesting.
◯△🞏 <-> /p t k/: ???
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:35 pm
by Travis B.
alice wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:16 pm
I was idly thinking about a featural conscript which used the simplest shapes - circle, triangle, and square - to represent /p t k/, and began to wonder which would be which. Then it occurred to me: why not ask the ZBB? So, what do you think? Which shape fits which phoneme, and why? Obviously there's no right answer, but the reasoning might be very interesting.
◯△🞏 <-> /p t k/: ???
/p/ is obviously a circle.
/t/ is probably a triangle.
/k/ would by ruling out the other choices would be a square, but I don't think of squares when I hear /k/, so?
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:57 pm
by WeepingElf
I agree with Travis B.
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:14 pm
by Darren
I think /k/ is pointy enough to be a triangle. And /t/ (especially an alveolar one) feels quite square.
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:42 pm
by Torco
total disagree: p is a square, t is a circle, and i don't have strong opinions about k. it could be triangle, it could be some sort of star.
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:34 pm
by Travis B.
Darren wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:14 pm
I think /k/ is pointy enough to be a triangle. And /t/ (especially an alveolar one) feels quite square.
I would say that /k/ could be a diamond, which one would get by rotating the square 45 degrees.
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:51 pm
by Emily
pircle triangle kquare
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:34 am
by hwhatting
p is a circle, k is a triangle with the pointy end up, t is a triangle with the pointy end down, a square is m. That's what the Lord intended, and every other option is utter and absolute nonsense divorced from reality, contrary to the laws of the gods and nature, and insane to a degree that implementing it will awake ancient evils that have been slumbering for eons. Consider yourself warned.
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 6:46 am
by Darren
If anything is a square, it's /g/, or perhaps /ʈ/. /m/ isn't a square, it's an irregular blob. Although I agree that /k/ points upwards.
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:16 am
by mocha
/k/ is the sharpest sound, so it must be the triangle,
/p/ is the roundest sound, so it must be the circle,
/t/ is intermediate in aesthetic, so it must be the square
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:07 am
by masako
WeepingElf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:57 pm
I agree with Travis B.
3rded.
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:22 pm
by Moose-tache
I agree with Darren: p-circle, t-square, k-triangle.
To me, it seems quite obvious that k must be the assigned the pointiest shape available, so it's curious to me that there seems to be a strong concensus that triangle is T. Would anyone care to explain why they associate a triangle with a coronal plosive?
So far, I have two theories:
First, people are just being influenced by the fact that "triangle" begins with a t. This is unlikely, since most people here are probably not suseptible to that kind of pitfall.
Second, people are assigning shapes from left to right, so they have to pick t before k. Since triangle is a more distinctive shape than square, it will "feel" more like anything than square will. Quick, which shape better represents happiness? Or caution? Or the nation of South Africa? Triangle will win every time, simply because it stands out more than square. I think if people assigned shapes from right to left, or in random order, they would realize that k is inherently pointy, and should be a triangle.
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 2:53 am
by xxx
I agree that the |)ircle, Triangle and sKare are good mnemonic tricks...
in addition, representing 0 tongue, the apex of the tongue and the body of the tongue are good featural signs...
but in fact I don't believe in such predestinations, once chosen each pairing will make its place both mnemonic and representative (and even more, as they bring new connotations, both exotic and inventive...)
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 5:41 pm
by Travis B.
Moose-tache wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:22 pm
I agree with Darren: p-circle, t-square, k-triangle.
To me, it seems quite obvious that
k must be the assigned the pointiest shape available, so it's curious to me that there seems to be a strong concensus that triangle is T. Would anyone care to explain why they associate a triangle with a coronal plosive?
So far, I have two theories:
First, people are just being influenced by the fact that "triangle" begins with a t. This is unlikely, since most people here are probably not suseptible to that kind of pitfall.
Second, people are assigning shapes from left to right, so they have to pick t before k. Since triangle is a more distinctive shape than square, it will "feel" more like anything than square will. Quick, which shape better represents happiness? Or caution? Or the nation of South Africa? Triangle will win every time, simply because it stands out more than square. I think if people assigned shapes from right to left, or in random order, they would realize that k is inherently pointy, and should be a triangle.
To me it's because I perceive /t/ as being sharper than /k/, which in turn is sharper than /p/. However, I still perceive /k/ as pretty sharp, so the square does not seem quite appropriate there either (but I perceive a diamond, i.e. a square rotated 45 degrees, as sharper, hence why it seems more apropos for /k/).
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2023 9:44 pm
by Moose-tache
I will accept this compromise.
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:22 am
by Qwynegold
I vote circle for p because it's bouba, triangle for t and square for k because k is "duller" than t, so the pointier shape should go to t.
Re: Poll about a possible conscript
Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:06 pm
by Znex
A diamond instead of a square feels more aesthetic to me, and then you can keep a pointy shape for both /t/ and /k/.
Also I agree /k/ should have the triangle, as the "kiki" phoneme.