Zompist Bboard Again

Proto Northern Lakes
*p *t *k
*m *n

Vowels
*i *u
*a

Allophony
Stops were aspirated word initially
*n was *l before a consonant
*m assimilated to the place of articulation of the following consonant
Stops were fricatives before other stops except for *k which varied between a fricative and a glottal stop
*m was *w intervocalically
*n was *ɹ intervocalically
Vowels were nasalised before nasal consonants
*i and *u were in free variation with *e and *o
*a was *ɛ before a coronal coda especially in stressed syllables
*a was *ɔ before a labial coda especially in stressed syllables

To Proto Southern Lakes
*p > *X before *a and when initial
*t > *s before *i
*k > *X intervocalically
*i > *e before a coda except when that coda is nasal
*u > *o before a coda except when that coda is nasal
*a > *ɛ before a coronal coda
*a > *ɔ before a labial coda
Codas lost
Umlaut before final *i
Final vowels lost

*pampa “father” > ǫp
*nana “mother” > *nan
*akki “bow” > *èk
*naki “sun” > *nè
*tuki “moon” > *ti
*mapa “soul” > *ma
*kitku “light” > *kek “star”
*pati “fox” > *ès “dog”
*kiana “bird” > *kian “chicken”

In terms of grammar probably features possessive prefixes
1.sg *pa-
1.pl *pi-
2.sg *ta-
2.pl *mi-
3.sg *na-
3.pl *ni-

Shatsipi
*p *t *k
*θ~s
*b~w~m *d~r~n *ʃ~j

*i *u
*e *o
*a

*į *ų
*ą

Allophony
Consonants
*b is *b initially, *w intervocalically and *m before nasal vowels
*d is *d initially, *r intervocalically and *n before nasal vowels or finally
*j is *ʃ initially
*θ is *s before *i and finally
Voiceless stops are aspirated lightly when initial and strongly when phrase initial
*d and *t merge after voiceless consonants in phrases as *t
Voiceless consonants are glottalised before nasal vowels
Vowels
*ą is never realised as nasalised; it is only reconstructable as such from its effects on other phonemes. Due to no significant allophony taking place *a and *ą are merged after *j when it is intervocalic
*e and *o and *į and *ų sporadically lower to low-mid vowels in unstressed positions. This is especially the case in rapid speech unless the following vowel is an *i or *u or a stressed *į or *ų

*b *bʲ *d *gʲ *g *gʷ
*p *pʲ *t *kʲ *k *kʷ
*b’ *t’ *kʲ’ *k’ *kʷ’ *q’
*ts *c (tʃ)
*z *ʐ
*f *s *sʲ *ʂ *ʃ *xʷ
*ł *ll (l̪) *l (ɭ)
*ɹ *r *ʀ
*j *w
*m *mʲ *n *ŋʲ

*i *u
*(ə)
*a

Schwa is epenthetic generally inserted between any non-medial CC clusters except for the following
Nasal + Stop
*ts but note *nts is a valid cluster
Stop + (ll/r/ʀ)
Consonant + Glide
*a is *ɛ in contact with palatal consonants and *ɔ in contact with labial or labialised consonants

Grammar
Plural is formed via the addition of an infix *j or *w
Construct is formed by full reduplication
*balla “person” +*j = people + *maa “language” = *bjallamaa “the people’s language”

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:50 pm *b’

I hope you mean /ɓ/.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:25 pm

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:50 pm *b’

I hope you mean /ɓ/.

You are correct i just did not feel like going to wikipedia to drag the image for it

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 12:24 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 16, 2024 2:25 pm

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:50 pm *b’

I hope you mean /ɓ/.

You are correct i just did not feel like going to wikipedia to drag the image for it

This is what I use to generate IPA -- as long as you know X-SAMPA it works great.

Its ancestor

*b *d *ɖ *g
*p *t *ʈ *k *q
*p’ *t’ *k’ *q’
*β *ð *z *ɣ
*θ *s *ʃ
*r *ʀ
*l
*w *j
*m *n *ɳ *ɲ *ŋ

*i *u
*e *o
*a

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:50 pm *s *sʲ *ʂ *ʃ

I would suggest you change /ʃ/ to /ɕ/ because frankly there isn't much difference between /ʂ/ and /ʃ/, which results in a more cramped sibilant inventory.

I've seen *ʃ + *ɕ where most languages would have *ʂ

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:58 pm

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:50 pm *s *sʲ *ʂ *ʃ

I would suggest you change /ʃ/ to /ɕ/ because frankly there isn't much difference between /ʂ/ and /ʃ/, which results in a more cramped sibilant inventory.

But then /ɕ/ and /sʲ/ also get awfully close to each other.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2024 7:19 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:58 pm

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:50 pm *s *sʲ *ʂ *ʃ

I would suggest you change /ʃ/ to /ɕ/ because frankly there isn't much difference between /ʂ/ and /ʃ/, which results in a more cramped sibilant inventory.

But then /ɕ/ and /sʲ/ also get awfully close to each other.

That is not necessarily a problem; for instance, I contrast [sʲ] and [ɕ], which are allophones of /s/ and /ʃ/ respectively.

Also, Russian contrasts [sʲ] and [ɕː].

Due to my exiting from the Akana project i have many languages and language families in a void. So naturally i have decided to revise them. So here we have Proto Myékoid a language family loosely inspired by various aspects of sino-tibetan as well as many other languages of east asia and west africa. As expected it is isolating and monosyllabic. The most interesting part of the grammar i developed so far is the discourse with subject and object appearing preverbally when afformentioned and postverbally with particles when not. As such although the default sentence is SOV you could generally see VSO, SVO and OVS depending on pragmatics.
First we will start with the consonant phonology.


Myékoid had 65 consonants in onset including all consonants except for *h. 28 consonants could occur in coda including the voiceless obstruents, *h and *ʔ, the laterals and plain sonorants. These could form clusters of up to two consonants which were sonority hierarchy compliant except for stop+fricative clusters. Onset clusters were more complex having up to six consonants of any form. Some have further proposed other consonants are also clusters such as the aspirate consonants as well as the glottalised laterals which never appear to contrast with glottal stop + consonant or consonant + glottal stop sequences unlike other glottalised consonants. Aspirates also never contrast with consonant + *h clusters although the latter can be explained by them being unable to occur in onset. Reconstructed 6 consonant clusters are sketchy but include *mndksra “black beetle species” and *ntʔksroŋ “scratch awl”. Daughters with 6 consonant clusters are even rarer with most combining a few or more of the consonants into new ones or alternatively just losing consonants. Exact reconstructions elude us but the *c series has been proposed as alveolar stops or due to the lack of *c+sibilant* clusters as alveolar affricates although this is complicated by the existence of *t+sibilant* clusters which may have been dental. The *C series was also likely to be stops and although rarely reflexed as such the *Ć series may have been true palatal stops although such reflexes are even rarer then retroflex stop reflexes of *C*. Glottalic stops were most likely ejectives as in cases where they become preglottalised or postglottalised they merge with stop + glottal stop clusters while glottalic sonorants were pronounced as creaky voiced. *t’ being alveolar rather than dental is also a conservative trait of a few languages.

Vowels
Proto Myékoid contrasted five vowels but this was not the standard five vowel system of say Spanish, Hawaiian or Russian rather *u has been reconstructed as unrounded *ɯ like Japanese but without any sort of rounding. It is sometimes reflexes as *u including in the simple five vowel system of the Ntlai-Rong languages but often it remains unrounded including in the simple five vowel system of the Maeic languages. Supplementing this five vowel system is a phonation contrast in all five vowels which corresponds to various kinds glottalisation in languages that conserve it but based on its behaviour in branches such as Myéka (dragging vowels down) may have been pharyngealization. It also corresponds to the beginning of tonogenesis in many branches. In most branches the glottal syllables often have reduced and differing consonant inventories compared to non-glottal syllables however this reduction isn’t seen in many branches. In addition to the five vowels which always occurred in a word a word may contain an extra supplementary minor syllable at the end of words (unlike in many languages of east and southeast asia where minor syllables occur before the main syllable of the word). This syllable contained the vowels in order of commonness of *ə, *ɪ and *ʊ. Minor syllables were always of the form CV and had the same glottalisation typology as the main syllable they were connected to. Their loss triggers a variety of changes in affected languages such as tonogenesis, vowel length or vowel quality changes and complexification of the coda. The pathway of minor syllable to disyllable is also seen. Many minor syllables are formed via a process of derivation but they also show up on their own in many different words.

Culture and Genetics
Myékoid speakers contain significant genetic components from Khiukarian populations unlike the other languages of Southwestern Khiukaria or the Old Xai peoples but more in line with the Imperial Xai peoples to the south. Specifically this genetic component is that of Western or Northwestern populations and several lexical similarities between Myékoid reconstructions and other families with significant Western genetic component such as Proto Highland, Proto Jungle and Proto Northern have been noted. However Myékoid has been changed to reflect a more analytic and monosyllabic word structure although Northern also has many monosyllabic roots it is highly derivational and inflecting. On the other hand lexical similarity between Eastern or Southeastern populations are all but irrevocably destroyed by many Millenia of divergence and Eastern Khiukarian languages instead show lexical similarities with many languages of the Arctic and Subarctic southeast as well as the near southeastern continent forming the hypothetical Auroran superfamily. Myéka proper has loanwords even more similar to Proto Northern and Proto Jungle although they can’t fully be predicted from Proto Northern or Proto Jungle forms and shows generally polysyllabic word structure although many roots are still monosyllabic. Myéka languages range from analytic to polysynthetic in grammar and the whole family displays this wide range of differing degrees of synthesis.

Culture based on cultural similarities was probably based on foraging/light gardening with a leader who was often informal or with limited power. Besides this power was mainly held by a tribal healer *niˀneS who wielded healing magic *mnay as opposed to wild magic *kori as wielded by shamans or oracles *skayŋ. Pantheistic views of the creator are suggested as *liˀŋ “great/whole/all encompassing” is often reflexed as god. Sub-creator spirit cults which formed the basis of later societies were also seen. Besides this a tendency to put sacrifices in lakes is observed amongst say the Proto Myéka culture and several other cultures and is often near universal amongst groups which are still hunter gatherers. Reconstructed terminology related to the sea as well as various animal and plant vocabulary indicate they inhabited the southwestern coastal and mountainous regions now inhabited by other language families for the most part.