Zompist Bboard Again

Two Verdurian questions to check:

1) For plural referents, do we use singular forms of kio, eto, tot? Or do I use indefinite pronouns (for the latter)? Sorry if the answer is somehow obvious!

2) Where does stress fall in words that have i or u in penultimate position (and no stress marking)? E.g. Šerian ‒ do we get a glide or is the -i- stressed?

Thanks!

1. Yes, use singular verbs. If you're referring to people, try to use ca instead.

2. They are stressed, e.g. še-RI-an, pre-ZU-ir.

However, in Basfahe u + V was already monophthongized: šual > šal. There was an earlier stage šwal. A genteel speaker would avoid šal, but might well say šwal instead of the 'correct' (or earlier) ŠU-al.

Thanks! Very helpful.

zompist wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:45 am 1. Yes, use singular verbs. If you're referring to people, try to use ca instead.

I’m struggling to remember what exactly I was confused about right now, but I’ll read over what I was trying to write and post an example sentence tomorrow just to check I understand this fully.

2. They are stressed, e.g. še-RI-an, pre-ZU-ir.

However, in Basfahe u + V was already monophthongized: šual > šal. There was an earlier stage šwal. A genteel speaker would avoid šal, but might well say šwal instead of the 'correct' (or earlier) ŠU-al.

Thanks ‒ good to know!

Another mystery concerning stress that I’ve been thinking about for a while: what about a word like ucörtië, with two lengî (neither of which penult) and no vuáë?

sasasha wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:44 pm Another mystery concerning stress that I’ve been thinking about for a while: what about a word like ucörtië, with two lengî (neither of which penult) and no vuáë?

In that case you stress the first lenge: u-CÖR-ti-ë.

zompist wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:49 pm

sasasha wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:44 pm Another mystery concerning stress that I’ve been thinking about for a while: what about a word like ucörtië, with two lengî (neither of which penult) and no vuáë?

In that case you stress the first lenge: u-CÖR-ti-ë.

Ok, great, thank you!

While we're at it, just want to double check re iscreniy ‒ is the <y> just the orthographic variant of <i> for masculine nouns, or a consonant? And consequently where is the stress? The following would suggest it’s on the -e-:

the Stress section of the RG wrote:do not count y (ŽA-ney) unless it’s the only vowel (ver-DU-ry).

(I’m curious whether the pronunciation would differ from *iscreny.)

And also, tosceio ‒ reading strictly, the RG seems to suggest this is stressed on the -i-. (Since the stress rules say to ignore syllabification.) Is this correct?

(Sorry to bother you with all this small fry, but I’m thinking about adding audio to this Anki deck I’m making, so I want to make sure I understand the rules fully.)

sasasha wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:21 am While we're at it, just want to double check re iscreniy ‒ is the <y> just the orthographic variant of <i> for masculine nouns, or a consonant? And consequently where is the stress?

is-CRE-niy, yes.

(I’m curious whether the pronunciation would differ from *iscreny.)

Not in EMV at least. The progression is -ILIS > ilyi > iyi > i but there was no long i in EMV.

And also, tosceio ‒ reading strictly, the RG seems to suggest this is stressed on the -i-. (Since the stress rules say to ignore syllabification.) Is this correct?

Technically yes, but I should add some rules for blatant reborrowings from Caďinor. Caď. EIO is just pronounced like -eo.

Great, thank you!

zompist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:51 am Technically yes, but I should add some rules for blatant reborrowings from Caďinor. Caď. EIO is just pronounced like -eo.

That's more or less the situation I figured. Adding those rules wouldn't hurt, but my instinct was just to pronounce it that way anyway.

There are other cases that give me pause for thought -- a name I'm using a lot, Kaidan, doesn't feel too natural to stress on the -i-. But (a) that's partly my conditioning being familiar with similar names here, (b) there's usually so much dialectal variation about such things that I am probably overthinking it, and (c) I'm guessing this might fall under the bracket of examples which might be found casually with a glide, but, when asked to repeat carefully, speakers will insist on stressing the technical penult.

sasasha wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:32 pm There are other cases that give me pause for thought -- a name I'm using a lot, Kaidan, doesn't feel too natural to stress on the -i-. But (a) that's partly my conditioning being familiar with similar names here, (b) there's usually so much dialectal variation about such things that I am probably overthinking it, and (c) I'm guessing this might fall under the bracket of examples which might be found casually with a glide, but, when asked to repeat carefully, speakers will insist on stressing the technical penult.

I'd say (c). Much more important to get that uvular [q] in.

I’m pretty sure I’ve got the answer already from readings, but just to register this stress query I once had so this thread has a comprehensive record of them, and in case I’m wrong:

If a word with an accent in the root then takes an inflectional ending with stress, it’s the ending that takes the stress?

E.g. ränát > ränatán

sasasha wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2024 2:48 pm If a word with an accent in the root then takes an inflectional ending with stress, it’s the ending that takes the stress?

E.g. ränát > ränatán

Yep!