Zompist Bboard Again

I've noticed a phenomenon in American speakers of English (it may well apply to Canadians too): for a lot of people I see on TV or YouTube or wherever, they seem to pronounce /s/ slightly more forward, almost dentally - almost. Now, I'm not sure if this really is what's happening or if these people have just all had particular dental work done which imposes this on them. I've never seen a European speaker do it, even when they speak English with a learnt American-ish accent.

For an example, here's Rick Beato's latest video. Rick does what I'm trying to describe a lot, and there's plenty of S's in the opening. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3OazxoPRK8

For some reason YouTube isn't working at my work right now (it's not blocked per se, it just waits with a spinny thing forever), so I will describe what happens in my dialect -- all coronals other than /θ ð/ have two pronunciations, an unpalatalized one and a palatalized one, but this is by far most obvious with sibilants and /t/ (which when palatalized commonly becomes a sibilant affricate), with it otherwise being very subtle (such that it can otherwise be largely overlooked). When not palatalized /s/ is realized with the tip of the tongue right in front of the alveolar ridge, the blade of the tongue against its front, and the body of the tongue lowered, such that it is almost dentoalveolar. When palatalized /s/ is realized with the tip of the tongue and blade of the tongue against the middle of the alveolar ridge and the body of the tongue raised. The conditions that lead to palatalization are being before /w u ʊ ər/ and, for sibilants, /t tʃ n/, for sibilants following /k ɡ r l/ in a syllable coda (if the sibilant is followed by a vowel in the same word this does not apply), and for sibilants there is free variation before /p m/. The "fronted" pronunciation you describe is likely a dentoalveolar realization of /s/.

I had a professor for a Gen Ed class in college and her /s/ was quite noticeably dental.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:22 pm I had a professor for a Gen Ed class in college and her /s/ was quite noticeably dental.

Sorry for going off topic, but what is on the syllabus in a General Education class? The entire contents of an encyclopedia?

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:26 pm

Man in Space wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:22 pm I had a professor for a Gen Ed class in college and her /s/ was quite noticeably dental.

Sorry for going off topic, but what is on the syllabus in a General Education class? The entire contents of an encyclopedia?

"General Education" means an intro course to cover the sort of stuff they expect you would have got in high school had you taken more advanced high school (e.g. Advanced Placement) classes, to bring the kids that didn't take such courses up to speed for what they expect in college. Note that it is a category of class, not any single class.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:59 pm

"General Education" means an intro course to cover the sort of stuff they expect you would have got in high school had you taken more advanced high school (e.g. Advanced Placement) classes, to bring the kids that didn't take such courses up to speed for what they expect in college. Note that it is a category of class, not any single class.

Ah, thank you, now it makes sense. Trying to put all the contents of a well-rounded general education into one class would be, well, let's call it an ambitious project.

I detect no dental /s/ in that video. There is more "buzz" in his /s/, but that sounds to me a result of pronouncing the sound with a stronger than usual apical quality. It's entirely possible, at least to my ears, that his tongue is even farther from the teeth than the standard /s/.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:59 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:26 pm

Man in Space wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:22 pm I had a professor for a Gen Ed class in college and her /s/ was quite noticeably dental.

Sorry for going off topic, but what is on the syllabus in a General Education class? The entire contents of an encyclopedia?

"General Education" means an intro course to cover the sort of stuff they expect you would have got in high school had you taken more advanced high school (e.g. Advanced Placement) classes, to bring the kids that didn't take such courses up to speed for what they expect in college. Note that it is a category of class, not any single class.

I’m more familiar with the concept being just the general courses you would have to take that are outside your (collegiate) major. When I went to OU, I had to have a number of Gen Eds in subjects that weren’t linguistics or languages in addition to the requirements of my major in order to graduate. For instance, the class in question was a philosophy class.

From listening to the video now that I'm at home, Rick Beato's [s] sounds awfully like the non-palatalized [s] I am familiar with in the dialect here.