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Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 2:20 pm
by Space60
How do you pluralize "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words? Dictionaries say the plural is "fathers-in-law", but I say "father-in-laws".
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 3:24 pm
by Travis B.
I've never had the need to pluralize them, but if I were to I'd say 'fathers-in-law' and like.
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 3:40 pm
by zompist
These are part of a whole range of expressions NP + PP. I'm guessing that you'd reject at least some of these possible plurals:
attorney generals
man-at-arms
lady-in-waitings
man of Gods
Man in Blacks
punch in the noses
It's not very surprising that over centuries, lexicalized NP+PPs may be reanalyzed as simple nouns. Note that even Merriam-Webster can't bring itself to suggest "jacks-in-the-box" as the first cited plural. It does give it, but after "jack-in-the-boxes".
You used to be able to search Google and Bing for specific text, but that's been ruined. Nonetheless it's clear that "Xs-in-law" and "X-in-laws" are both used.
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 4:31 pm
by Travis B.
About attorney general, prescriptively general is a postposed adjective, so it is attorney that gets pluralized. However, postposed adjectives are generally not productive in modern English (they are a feature that got cribbed from Old Norman back when) outside of very poetic language, so attorney general readily gets reanalyzed as a single noun, and hence is pluralized in much common usage as attorney generals.
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 4:49 pm
by Raphael
zompist wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 3:40 pm
These are part of a whole range of expressions NP + PP. I'm guessing that you'd reject at least some of these possible plurals:
attorney generals
man-at-arms
lady-in-waitings
man of Gods
Man in Blacks
punch in the noses
"man of Gods" sounds like it might have two different meanings to me.
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 5:16 pm
by Travis B.
Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 4:49 pm
zompist wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 3:40 pm
These are part of a whole range of expressions NP + PP. I'm guessing that you'd reject at least some of these possible plurals:
attorney generals
man-at-arms
lady-in-waitings
man of Gods
Man in Blacks
punch in the noses
"man of Gods" sounds like it might have two different meanings to me.
"Man of Gods" makes me think of a devotee of multiple Old Gods...
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2024 6:56 pm
by Space60
zompist wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 3:40 pm
These are part of a whole range of expressions NP + PP. I'm guessing that you'd reject at least some of these possible plurals:
attorney generals
man-at-arms
lady-in-waitings
man of Gods
Man in Blacks
punch in the noses
It's not very surprising that over centuries, lexicalized NP+PPs may be reanalyzed as simple nouns. Note that even Merriam-Webster can't bring itself to suggest "jacks-in-the-box" as the first cited plural. It does give it, but after "jack-in-the-boxes".
You used to be able to search Google and Bing for specific text, but that's been ruined. Nonetheless it's clear that "Xs-in-law" and "X-in-laws" are both used.
Well, yes, for the last one especially, I'd definitely say "punches in the nose." Also "pains in the butt/ass/neck" would definitely be the plural of "pain in the butt/ass/neck."
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2025 2:30 pm
by alice
"Xs-in-law" sounds more natural to me than "X-in-laws". Interestingly, for the genitive, "X-in-law's" seems preferable to "X's-in-law".
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2025 2:45 pm
by zompist
alice wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2025 2:30 pm
Interestingly, for the genitive, "X-in-law's" seems preferable to "X's-in-law".
Yeah, 's is now a clitic that attaches to a NP, not a noun.
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 1:12 pm
by Linguoboy
Space60 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 6:56 pmWell, yes, for the last one especially, I'd definitely say "punches in the nose." Also "pains in the butt/ass/neck" would definitely be the plural of "pain in the butt/ass/neck."
"Pain in the butts/asses/necks" is acceptable to me in the more common metaphoric sense. "Pains" suggests actual physical pains to me.
What do folks have for the plural of "passerby"?
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 1:20 pm
by TomHChappell
Passersby. Or maybe passers-by.
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 1:56 pm
by Travis B.
Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2025 1:12 pm
Space60 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 6:56 pmWell, yes, for the last one especially, I'd definitely say "punches in the nose." Also "pains in the butt/ass/neck" would definitely be the plural of "pain in the butt/ass/neck."
"Pain in the butts/asses/necks" is acceptable to me in the more common metaphoric sense. "Pains" suggests actual physical pains to me.
I must agree on this one.
Linguoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2025 1:12 pm
What do folks have for the plural of "passerby"?
I have
passersby for this.
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 2:21 pm
by alice
TomHChappell wrote: ↑Fri Jan 03, 2025 1:20 pm
Passersby. Or maybe passers-by.
Me too. Conceivably we have a noun which forms its plural with an infix.
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 4:08 pm
by Ketsuban
I'm inclined to call it an orthographic irregularity in dropping a hyphen. Passer-by is an agent noun regularly formed (compare hanger-on) from the phrasal verb pass by. Note the stress as compared to something like Wetherby.
Re: Plural of "father-in-law" and other "X-in-law" words.
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:18 pm
by jcb
attorney generals
man-at-arms
lady-in-waitings
man of Gods
Man in Blacks
punch in the noses
"son-of-a-bitches" sounds wrong... ("sons-of-bitches" sounds better)... but that didn't stop it from appearing in the movie "Samurai Cop":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0IBhUoPlfM