Zompist Bboard Again

I thought I was almost finished with the language of the breakaway civilization, Laulai. The more problems I correct, the more I find. Once I finish it, I will post it here.

I made pervasive changes. The language sounds less like English now. I tried to regularize years of layered changes, but I left some of it in there. I tried to make it look like ancient grammar has compressed into vocabulary. I can't say yet whether the result looks realistic.

The Amulet of Samarkand was the first fantasy book that blew me away. It's where I first heard of Coptic. Researching it online inspired me to create an esoteric language with a Greek superstrate of my own.

Briefly, the idea is that there was a family of agglutinative languages spoken in and around Greece (Pelasgian). The Arcadian branch of the Auloic family was spoken in the Peloponnese. The Pythagorean cult, driven out of Kroton in Magna Graecia, settled in a valley of Arcadian-speaking barbarians. There, they discovered true harmonic ratios that govern the universe. With this occult science, they developed an advanced civilization that left the planet.

This breakaway civilization, the Laulai, speaks a descendant of Arcadian with a Greek philosophical superstrate and a "grammar" thoroughly reinterpreted on the basis of Neopythagorean principles. Every noun is inflected with a number that carries Pythagorean associations (based on real, historical Pythagoreanism). Auloic languages were intended to have been influenced by Northwest Caucasian. They have directional preverbs. Laulai was originally intended as a great grand-ancestor of Proto-Galactic that's beyond the scope of the comparative method. It has the large number of noun classes already based on Pythagorean categories.

The setting is a space opera that's like a cross between Evangelion, WH40K and UFO lore. The Laulai have bases across the solar system. From beyond the system, the ksost arrive. The ksost are described as crooked (mam). Most are hostile to life in the system. The Laulai see themselves as hunters who fight the monsters that threaten humanity. Their armies are led by child lords (sen-mis) who are trained from a young age to master occult disciplines and military sciences. As they age, their occult powers gradually dissipate. Most burn out with the onset of adolescence and spend the rest of their lives as mad prophets unable to function in normal society, muttering to themselves unintelligibly, but who are occasionally seized by flashes of terrible insight. The Laulai keep them around just in case. Those who recover from the burnout usually want to spend the rest of their lives selling books or coffee. A few have transitioned into generals, academics or singers. Such people are feared and revered by the general populace.

Maintaining an army that fights the ksost requires a lot of low level mechanical work that can't all be automated by occult science alone. For this purpose, the Laulai keep slaves of "inferior races", meaning anyone not of Pelasgian descent and Pythagorean religion. Greeks are particularly despised for having rejected the Pythagorean doctrine. However, a Greek who converts to Pythagoreanism without any obvious motives of social climbing has a special place like Jews who accept Jesus.

The Laulai get slaves by kidnapping them from earth. They send genetically modified servants (falzes) to carry "messages from a superior race (or angels or whatever)" to assorted occult and supremacist groups all over the world like the Nazis and the Islamists. Many who join these groups are reported as dead from clashes with other extremist groups. In reality, they are disappeared and shipped off-world to tighten screws in a dank and dirty hold. If quality is important, the Laulai descend in UFOs and abduct the targeted individuals directly. Sometimes these are scientists with expertise in a niche field whom they were unable to manipulate into helping through conventional correspondence. Sometimes they want particular genetic attributes for a specially bred line of slaves: the diggers (kauzes), the hammerers (sipzes), the cooks (nalzes), the hunters (pmizes), the "lovers" (falzes) they use to manipulate their Genestealer Cults, etc.

This treatment of the earth population is justified on the basis that most ksost are hostile to earth life too. Using humans as tools is no different from switching to plant-based products to benefit the environment.

I lost a draft, so I'm crashing out for now. It's not like anyone's going to read this anyway. Here's what I have so far: https://snapshotsofthelabyrinth.photo.b ... ilization/

I hope my Swahili studies paid off. Come to think of it, there's Swahili and Sumerian in the same language. Laulai is a split-ergative language that is on the way to becoming more accusative (6.2 IIRC). I tried to note exceptions and transitional processes in many places throughout the grammar. That's partly why it's so long.

The real world history is that I didn't always use the language consistently while writing stories. It's mainly designed to sound clipped and military in some ways while having long words in other contexts. However, I think the current compromise covers all the major cases. Sadly, this time I wasn't able to come up with derivational processes driving all the transitions. Most of the reasons given are social influences. Laulai is much more of a mixed language than Coptic, with the Greek superstrate being far more pervasive. Still, I don't think it's entirely unrealistic overall except for the Pythagoreanized grammar. Some bits are eyebrow-raising for me.

Advice? Questions?

Added yet another dubious paragraph:

A note on -am. The accusative is unusual among the Greek borrowings. Attic and every dialect the brotherhood could plausibly have carried out of Magna Graecia mark the accusative singular in -ν, not -μ. However, word-final -ν regularly assimilates to -μ before a following labial-initial word, a phenomenon attested even in Greek epigraphy, where τὸν is occasionally spelled τὸμ ahead of πατέρα. The brotherhood is thought to have taken the ending not from the grammatical paradigm but from continuous speech, possibly a set liturgical phrase heard over and over ahead of a labial-initial noun. What was borrowed was the allomorph. This is not unlike what happened to tra "four" (§2), another Greek fragment where the assimilated form was kept rather than its dictionary entry.

I did whatever I wanted with this language.

The names of the registers medr-lok and tkalok are possibly full Greek though they may not look that way.

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I'm trying to write one of these stories in English.

Good gods, this amazes.

Pedant wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2026 12:04 pm Good gods, this amazes.

Thank you.

I'm digging myself even deeper by creating more sample sentences.

The four-syllable limit reminds me of Elko, a conlang by Ziecken Azuris rooted in numerology and theonymy (currently being rebooted). But your conlang has those irregularities that keep poking up from under the cover of a rationally-engineered project. Language wants to be free! Very charming, and the clipped sound comes true on the page.

Vilike wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2026 1:15 pm The four-syllable limit reminds me of Elko, a conlang by Ziecken Azuris rooted in numerology and theonymy (currently being rebooted).

I didn't know this existed. I'll look into it.

Vilike wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2026 1:15 pm But your conlang has those irregularities that keep poking up from under the cover of a rationally-engineered project. Language wants to be free! Very charming, and the clipped sound comes true on the page.

Thanks. Any advice for when I rework it? (I will do it anyway to separate the world from the grammar.)

Is this translation even comprehensible? https://snapshotsofthelabyrinth.photo.b ... -teaching/

rotting bones wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2026 7:31 am It's not like anyone's going to read this anyway.

Wrong, fortunately.

Here's what I have so far: https://snapshotsofthelabyrinth.photo.b ... ilization/
...
Advice? Questions?

This is a fascinating piece of work, and a particularly interesting, unique bit of worldbuilding. I am curious on several levels. (I also happen to know a nine-year-old who could probably rakt, not that I want them to become an imn-anθ.)

My main question is how the guilds have preserved the numerological (and philosophical) aspects of the formal register Tlalok? I understand that this is a ritual register (essential to survival) so there is a definite motivator towards preservation. But every so often some bright young Laulai will surely come along and challenge the prevailing belief system: for instance, proposing an alternative number base. Is this kind of thing treated as heresy, or madness, or does the sorm simply not work without Tlalok functioning as it is (in a Le Guin Old Speech sort of way), or something else?

I enjoy the way the worldbuilding is baked into your grammar ‒ it feels a bit like reading Pāṇini. At times it’s a bit heavy, or heady even, like mixing grammar and drugs. But I’m here for it.

I’ve only managed half of this post yet, so might ask more later. Apologies if you dealt with my question further down the document.

rotting bones wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2026 8:41 pm Is this translation even comprehensible? https://snapshotsofthelabyrinth.photo.b ... -teaching/

Yes, I like it. Reminds me of the Dao, Vo̡luspá and Frank Herbert. It is and isn't comprehensible in the way that wisdom literature usually is.

I have another worldbuilding question. Is it really necessary for the Laulai to be so evil towards other humans? There's a risk of that coming across as gratuitously grimdark. I think as you've expressed it thus far, I'm struggling to see why they require an enslavement model of this nature when a level of mutual cooperation might also work (without the Laulai, Earth dies, after all).

It also might take for a more interesting world. Morally grey is relatable and nuanced, and all-out evil has been done a lot. (I know they’re saving the universe but Save and Enslave feels like very dark grey to me.)

If there’s a bunch of subtlety here I’m not getting in this reading then just say.

sasasha wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2026 8:31 am I have another worldbuilding question. Is it really necessary for the Laulai to be so evil towards other humans? There's a risk of that coming across as gratuitously grimdark. I think as you've expressed it thus far, I'm struggling to see why they require an enslavement model of this nature when a level of mutual cooperation might also work (without the Laulai, Earth dies, after all).

It also might take for a more interesting world. Morally grey is relatable and nuanced, and all-out evil has been done a lot. (I know they’re saving the universe but Save and Enslave feels like very dark grey to me.)

If there’s a bunch of subtlety here I’m not getting in this reading then just say.

Thanks. TLDR:

In world: Zompist has often said new civilizations often take time to understand the shape of reality. The Laulai have an undeveloped society with ultrafuturistic technology, like the scifi parody of a society ruled by a big psychic baby. A lot of people, from slaves to rulers, are dissatisfied with this state of affairs. This is not a problem isolated individuals can solve.

Real world: Stories need flaws in order to have a trajectory. TBH, the Laulai are not entirely unlike my current experience of governments around the world.

Longer answer:

The Laulai don't think they are being evil. They have laws to prevent the mistreatment of slaves. From their perspective, they are using their power to save us all. There are several reasons for this:

1. Their psychology is that they are raiding the goatherds who live on the other side of the hill (AKA planet earth), people who would raid them back if they could. Laulai technology developed advanced capabilities before their society had a chance to develop beyond cattle raiding. Laulai heroes resemble Cuchulainn.

2. The Laulai are afraid of mortals because they have around the population of Switzerland. Mortal slaves in the holds alone outnumber the Laulai 9 to 1, and this is still not enough to keep things running. The City of the Sun ends up looking more and more decrepit after every mobilization and now feels, in some ways, analogous to a cyberpunk dystopia with magic instead of tech and a corrupt medieval church setting the agenda.

The attacks from space are increasing in frequency. There's a general sense that the obvious thing to do is to get past the finish line instead of being distracted by intra-human squabbles at this juncture.

3. The Laulai are authoritarian religious fundamentalists. They think mortals are stupid because we don't understand the real dynamics of how the world works. We were told about it several times*. We said "nah" and kept believing all kinds of lies. That's when we weren't violent towards our would-be enlighteners.

They believe that if given half a chance, they will be wiped out and/or forcibly assimilated, just like the Auloic tribes in Arcadia and the Pythagoreans throughout Greece. Once that happens, the mortals will impose various unscientific doctrines in the holds. Then all humans, both people and mortals, will die. Mortals will welcome this result. Because of the misery of our benighted lives, mortal religions tell us to look forward to the end of the world. We need to be disciplined out of these natural instincts like animals.

4. A lot of Laulai society is run by kids, most of whom don't see a problem with narcissism and the rule of cool. They don't mean anything by it. Many of the Laulai with real power are literally 12. Adults don't have the power to stop them.

Individual Laulai kids don't have the power to stop their society either. Their society has an American middle school style pecking order. Troublemakers are liable to be beaten up by jocks if they're too annoying. Dissenters often get by by keeping their heads down. It's a Lord of the Flies situation, and no one's mounting a rescue operation.

5. The Laulai effectively have an infinite supply of slaves. Slaves are smarter at getting things done than the technology at their disposal. The economic incentive to switch to a different mode of production is not strong enough to be actionable.

6. Many Laulai recognize they are trapped in a slightly different form of a phenomenon mortal philosophers call "scientism": https://youtu.be/4XWZK4003uY

7. What non-analysts first think of is that if the choir slaves stop singing, everyone in the holds will drop dead immediately.

8. The Laulai masses themselves live in horrid capsule rooms. Invasions aside, they lose their brightest to drug abuse epidemics (or other addictions like gaming). The lives of slaves don't look that much worse by comparison.

The City of the Sun is located on the surface of Venus, where it's hidden by reflective clouds. The non-terrestrial environment routinely causes physiological abnormalities like bulbous heads. Fighting for the rights of others is not exactly their highest priority.

Despite all this, the society does change over the course of the narrative. This is not discussed in the grammar.

* A widely believed lie. They are thinking of the rejection of Pythagoreanism. However, the true ratios were never, and are still not, made public.

rotting bones wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2026 8:41 pm Is this translation even comprehensible? https://snapshotsofthelabyrinth.photo.b ... -teaching/

Now with audio by Robin Lowery-Morton.

sasasha wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2026 5:41 am (I also happen to know a nine-year-old who could probably rakt, not that I want them to become an imn-anθ.)

Wow. Our hope for the future.

sasasha wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2026 5:41 am My main question is how the guilds have preserved the numerological (and philosophical) aspects of the formal register Tlalok? I understand that this is a ritual register (essential to survival) so there is a definite motivator towards preservation. But every so often some bright young Laulai will surely come along and challenge the prevailing belief system: for instance, proposing an alternative number base. Is this kind of thing treated as heresy, or madness, or does the sorm simply not work without Tlalok functioning as it is (in a Le Guin Old Speech sort of way), or something else?

The military missions are organized by the Order. The Order externally maintains the official standard listed in the grammar. When facing a real enemy, the rule is that standard methods are worthless. Bright young people are inducted into the Mneka war shrine, which encourages experimentation. The mages who go through their training do whatever it takes to reach numerological balance, such as a detour through hyperreal numbers. Under normal circumstances, the Order reluctantly tolerates this behavior since the Mneka is its own militant arm. If the behavior is too deviant, the Order might classify it to discourage corruption in routine operations.

sasasha wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2026 5:41 am I enjoy the way the worldbuilding is baked into your grammar ‒ it feels a bit like reading Pāṇini. At times it’s a bit heavy, or heady even, like mixing grammar and drugs. But I’m here for it.

...

Yes, I like it. Reminds me of the Dao, Vo̡luspá and Frank Herbert. It is and isn't comprehensible in the way that wisdom literature usually is.

Thanks.

A few more words:

Male names: Amon, Atlan, Ion (John)
Female names: Akman, Aθaur, Mari (Mary)

Specialized equipment: aθnor (an interface towards which proofs are directed for magical effects), iks (iynx), mnetek (incense), psnaikos (orichalcum), θopzesek (catalyst)

Pythagoras is Pauθagor.