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Alveolar Non-sibilant and Tapped Fricatives
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:03 am
by TurkeySloth
As [
θ̠,
ɾ̞̊,
ð̠,
ɾ̞] are allophones of other sounds in natlangs, I expect some variance in their pronunciation. But, [ð̠, ɾ̞] sound [ʒ]-like to me, whereas I expected [ð̠] to sound [d]-like. Are [ð̠, ɾ̞], actually, that similar, or is [ð̠]'s clip incorrect? If the former, why?
Re: Alveolar Non-sibilant and Tapped Fricatives
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:46 am
by Tropylium
The exact POA is hard to tell from these clips, but they're very clearly apical fricatives. The laminal equivalents (as used in Icelandic) are much more similar to usual dental [θ ð].
The notion of "tapped fricative" is new to me and, frankly, sounds nonsensical. The voiced example here seems to be a fricative trill.
Re: Alveolar Non-sibilant and Tapped Fricatives
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:17 am
by anteallach
The [θ̠] sounds OK to me; the [ð̠] does indeed sound a bit too sibilant and perhaps a bit too retracted for an alveolar.
The [θ̠] I have in my English (variable allophone of /t/ in intervocalic position) is definitely apical, and perhaps slightly postalveolar.
Re: Alveolar Non-sibilant and Tapped Fricatives
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:24 pm
by TurkeySloth
Tropylium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:46 am
The exact POA is hard to tell from these clips, but they're very clearly apical fricatives. The laminal equivalents (as used in Icelandic) are much more similar to usual dental [θ ð].
The notion of "tapped fricative" is new to me and, frankly, sounds nonsensical. The voiced example here seems to be a fricative
trill.
Wikipedia describes taps, including fricatives, as "having a single contact" and trills as "ranging from one to three contacts." Thus, any tapped fricative could be considered a fricative trill.