Zompist Bboard Again

Would you like to learn to ſpeak French? Would you like to know how to ſay 'Lay there my Garters, and my Girdle, my ſwords and my Dagger?'to your French manſervant?
Then tarry not, my good Sir or Lady, and read a ſure Guide to the French tongue

Why, thank you, good sir!

They Thought You'd Say This: the 1658 edition!

Allez quérir la bible. Go fetch the bible.

Il pète. He farts.
Non, c'est elle. Not, it is she
Vous ne faites que péter. You do nothing but fart.

Ne maniez pas le chien. Do not handle the dog.

Elle a perdu son pucelage. She has lost her maidenhead

Mortifier le péché. To mortify sin.

Apprestez nous une douzaine d'oeufs frais, car si nous mangions de la chair aujourd'huy, le Pape nous excommunieroit.
Make us ready a dozen of new eggs, for, if, we should eat flesh today, the Pope would excommunicate us.

Vous estes punais. You have a stinking breath.

Que fais-tu là, grand lourdaut? What dost thou there great Lubber?

je vous foueteray tout à l'heure. I will whip you presently.

I know not, how to ſound the lettre 'd', nor how many ſorts of them there be.

Go no further, till you have learned all theſe perfectly, both the twenty two letters and theſe ſyllables, and after that you know them perfectly, begin to read, and in reading learn to ſpell perfectly: for, it is that which will perfect thee, ſo as that though wilt be able to correct many Frenchment both in their ſpeaking and writing, if thou wilt take pains to learn it perfectly, and be as perfect in it as in thine own natural tongue.

Hear that, Frenchmen? After I memorize theſe pronunciations, I'll be able to ſpeak and write French better than YOU!

It is of note that French was not nearly as widely known in France at this time. Occitan was spoken by roughly 40% of France in 1871, two centuries after this book was published. The introduction of, first free, then obligatory education was put in place soon after. It appears it is primarily in the century following this that the local language loss in France accelerated. I even have met people from Metropolitan France who were brought up with local langues d'oïl, one who made the choose not to speak it, unlike her classmates, and the other who forgot her native language (variety) of her childhood.

Yeah, the author is entirely correct when he says a foreigner that paid attention to these pronunciation details would speak in a more standard way than most of the French population. There were plenty of oïl and oc dialects in use at the time.

Nevertheless, it's amusing that people's approach to language hasn't changed. Today, people still claim to speak languages better than native speakers because they don't understand dialect and variety.

I wondered myself if the author was thinking of regional languages, but I'm not sure he was. Contemporary literary sources barely mention linguistic diversity. From Molière's plays you get the idea that the peasants talk funny, but little more. Did he even think of Occitan (or Picard or one of the many other languages/dialects) speakers? I'm not sure. ('Of course, they don't speak right!' he might have said. 'They're peasants! Or Gascons!')

So I'm not sure, but I think he was just getting a little overenthusiastic. The intended audience of the book would've been upper-class, I'm guessing, and thus likely to meet other upper-class people who would speak 'standard' French?

Speaking of linguistic diversity, he does list "Escossois/Scottish" as a separate language!

Which is no surprise to me as Scots was still to be the language of the court in Scotland for roughly another century.

alynnidalar wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:56 am Nevertheless, it's amusing that people's approach to language hasn't changed. Today, people still claim to speak languages better than native speakers because they don't understand dialect and variety.

It reminds me of this video: https://youtu.be/dJgoTcyrFZ4?t=128

I'm not saying I have a perfect accent. But at least I know my accent is bad.

MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:26 am Which is no surprise to me as Scots was still to be the language of the court in Scotland for roughly another century.

Oh, I see! I didn't know that.

Ars Lande wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:30 am

MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:26 am Which is no surprise to me as Scots was still to be the language of the court in Scotland for roughly another century.

Oh, I see! I didn't know that.

Don't worry (Dinnae fash yersel), most Scots these days, including my former self, don't know either.

Scots' problem is that it is sufficiently close to English that most people just think of it as some weird English dialect...

Scottish people I met insisted it was just stupid. Though Scots seem to be a self-deprecating sort: there definitely was a common 'it's shite being Scottish' vibe. (Which I don't understand at all. Edinburgh, for one, is one of my favorite places in the world.)

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:32 am Scots' problem is that it is sufficiently close to English that most people just think of it as some weird English dialect...

While similarity is of course a factor, geopolitics is also relevant as demonstrated here with the comparison with Danish and Bokmal. https://scots-online.org/grammar/langua ... ialect.php

Self-deprecation, as Ars Lande mentioned, is another factor.

For expressing invective, though, especially towards English Tories, Scots is unsurpassed.

Or Trump e.g. https://www.buzzfeed.com/hilarywardle/c ... ured-jobby