Zompist Bboard Again

In this thread I will chronicle changes to Kala lexicon and grammar. These are ongoing and recent changes.

kyolo >> kiyo - be fast; quick(ly); rapid(ity) / The "abbreviation"/particle kyo is still used as the emphatic "Quickly/Hurry!"

The "epigraphic" version of Omyatloko will no longer be used and is for archive purposes only. Only the "handwritten" version will be used from now on.

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ma'a - with [accompanied by / furnished with] will now be "be together with", "to accompany"

mua will be used for the preposition "with".

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tsua / -tsua /t͡ʃʷɑ/ - almost; nearly; more or less

will now be:

tsu'a / tsua / -tsua /t͡ʃuːʔa~t͡ʃʷɑ/ - almost; more-or-less; so-so; meh; to be average; neither good nor bad

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I have updated some vocabulary and altered the Kala calendar (more on this in subsequent posts). It now recognizes the six ecological seasons rather than the basic four.

tseku – early spring (prevernal) – Begins February (mild temperate), to March (cool temperate).
kueta – spring (vernal) – Begins mid March (mild temperate), to late April (cool temperate).
natsu – summer (estival) – Begins June in most temperate climates.
nkosa – late summer (serotinal) – Generally begins mid to late August.
aki – autumn; fall (autumnal) – Generally begins mid to late September.
neku – winter (hibernal) – Begins December (mild temperate), November (cool temperate).

Additionally, the word for “season” is now myeta (formerly muasa) with the prefix mye- being used for constructions like myepana “rainy season; monsoon”, or myetlolo “temperate season”.

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Some new vocabulary:

anye - waist; lower back
ike - gene; character; property; quality
kanki - flu; influenza
uto - organ (of body)
yanki - be refreshed; perk up

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Been messing around with the idea of different diacritics for the endings –m (or -lo (indicating general plural), -n (indicating adverbial or adjectival use), and –k (or -nke) (indicating negative mood). These endings all are word final and thus far I've been using a mark to indicate a lack of vowel as Moya is an abugida with inherent /a/.



Stay tuned for updates.

masako wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:23 am The "epigraphic" version of Omyatloko will no longer be used and is for archive purposes only. Only the "handwritten" version will be used from now on.

Is it still true (as you say here) that yatoyo does not use logograms, or has your usage changed to include them since then?

quinterbeck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:58 pm

masako wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:23 am The "epigraphic" version of Omyatloko will no longer be used and is for archive purposes only. Only the "handwritten" version will be used from now on.

Is it still true (as you say here) that yatoyo does not use logograms, or has your usage changed to include them since then?

Yes and no. I use some of them in yatoyo, but typically the "easier" ones. The glyphs with fewer strokes, or ones derived directly from syllable glyphs.

Here's a few: https://i.imgur.com/OByE9Pn.png

Something I've been considering; changing the S-O pronominal constructions:



So "You see me." was ta'ena anya would become tena anya, the plural pronouns would not need to change; "They see us." would still be kamenam anya.

masako wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:58 pm Something I've been considering; changing the S-O pronominal constructions:



So "You see me." was ta'ena anya would become tena anya, the plural pronouns would not need to change; "They see us." would still be kamenam anya.

I really, really like this. It just seems to fit better.

kodé wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:40 pmI really, really like this. It just seems to fit better.

Agreed.

After almost two years of writing in my journal, using Kala, I can honestly say that the previous incarnation of these constructions has increasingly felt cumbersome.

I was looking at the glyphs for Kala, partly because I'm still mucking around with letter forms for my alphabet for Vedreki and Cheyadeneen. The vowels all seem quite similar. They all have the same vertical stroke and get differentiated by marks top and bottom. But even those look similar - big dashes and little dashes and different numbers of dashes. Is this common, because I'm trying to keep my letters fairly different in form so they're easily recognisable and distinguishable?

evmdbm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:59 am I was looking at the glyphs for Kala, partly because I'm still mucking around with letter forms for my alphabet for Vedreki and Cheyadeneen. The vowels all seem quite similar. They all have the same vertical stroke and get differentiated by marks top and bottom. But even those look similar - big dashes and little dashes and different numbers of dashes. Is this common, because I'm trying to keep my letters fairly different in form so they're easily recognisable and distinguishable?

So, if you're asking how natural the Kala glyphs are...they're not...but neither is Hangul (despite all the hype about the formation of the mouth correlating to the vowel symbols). The commonality of these types of 'sets of features' is fairly rare, but that doesn't mean you use a similar system.

This page states: "Vowel markers are designed to convey articulation of vowels, as well as palatalization or labialization. Consonantal pre-nasalization and diphthongs are also indicated."



If you look closely at the basic vowels in the left-most column, /a e i o u/, they are distinct...well, distinct enough. Then, their placement and position is rotated to indicate various phonological information.

These - Omlatyoko - forms seem more different from each other than the Moya forms you originally had. Forgive me if I'm being stupid here, but are these supposed to be related to each other, because the Moya versions of a, e, i , o, u are all based on one bif vertical dash?

evmdbm wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:20 am These - Omlatyoko - forms seem more different from each other than the Moya forms you originally had. Forgive me if I'm being stupid here, but are these supposed to be related to each other, because the Moya versions of a, e, i , o, u are all based on one bif vertical dash?

Omyatloko and Moya are unrelated scripts. Omyatloko is meant to be logosyllabic, whereas Moya is an abugida. The former is only about 5 years old, the latter is something I've been working with for 20 years.

New Kala words.

kunke - negative number (from uku - number, and nke - no, not)
kuhya - decimal; fraction
punye - numerator; molecule

I am tweaking the adpositionals...trying to have them correlate more closely with their meaning and usage.

This page was last updated in 2018, but the section on prepositions was accurate until a few weeks ago.

What I have right now:

* ua'e - above; over / on [LOC]
* tahe - below; beneath; under [LOC]
* nahe - inside; interior; during; within [LOC]
* nyaue - outside of; exterior to [LOC]
* ka'e - to; towards; at [dative; directional DAT]
* uaye - from [out/away] [LOC]
* ma'e - before; in front (of) [LOC]
* pue - after; back; behind; rear; beyond [LOC]
* ya'e - near; close to [LOC]
* pahe - against; touching [LOC]
* mahe - between; among [intrative INTR]
* hue / -hue - at; to; in [locative LOC]
* tsa'e - across; through
* tsue - around; approximately
* tla'e - around; encircling; surrounding [LOC]
* sahe - across; opposite; other side [LOC]

* pa'e - apart from; other than; except for
* nka'e - in spite of; regardless of
* tsahe - for [in exchange for]
* tsaue - so long as; provided that
* tlaye - according to; based on
* te - of [belonging to; = GEN]; about
* mua - with [comitative; instrumental COM]
* uahe - instead of; rather than
* kue - like; similar to
* mue - without [abessive ABE]
* nya / nya'e - for [BEN]; purpose of; in order
* nyahe - by means of; per; via
* yahe - of [containing]

* maye - before [TEMP]
* kaye - until; up to; as far as [TEMP]
* naye - during; while [TEMP]
* maue - as soon as; when [TEMP]
* tsaye - during; start to end [TEMP]
* paye - after [TEMP]
* taye - since; from the end [TEMP]

I've made a new glyph gallery.

I've also started a massive overhaul of Kala grammar. I don't expect to be done before the end of the year, but I'm working a little bit each day. The significant changes will be noticeable to anyone who has looked at what is currently here. The new grammar will be published in PDF format on my blog.

Can you give us any hints on why you felt inspired to do this, and what the new grammar will be like? (or is it just an overhaul of the format and presentation?)

Glass Half Baked wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 3:34 am Can you give us any hints on why you felt inspired to do this, and what the new grammar will be like?

I've never been fully satisfied with Kala grammar. It's always felt a bit disjointed and lacking detail. I've been reading quite a bit in the last few months and have decided to align Kala closer to some natlangs. Mostly, head-final langs.

How is the revamp coming along? I am curious to see what you’ve come up with since last you posted.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:48 pm How is the revamp coming along? I am curious to see what you’ve come up with since last you posted.

It's painful, and slow. I've made progress, but I keep circling around certain issues. See here.

I am thinking about incorporating reduplication into Kala.

On nouns it would indicate them being scattered over the place, and it would change verbs to adverbs.

Any thoughts?

masako wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:06 pm I am thinking about incorporating reduplication into Kala.

On nouns it would indicate them being scattered over the place, and it would change verbs to adverbs.

Any thoughts?

I don't see what not. It seems like slightly unusual & limited uses, but from what I've seen reduplication can seem fairly random, even within a single language.

masako wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:06 pm I am thinking about incorporating reduplication into Kala.

On nouns it would indicate them being scattered over the place, and it would change verbs to adverbs.

Any thoughts?

Are you planning on using full or partial reduplication? The Kala aesthetic leads me to think partial reduplication might work better but I could be wrong. Do you have examples of how reduplication would look if implemented?

I disagree with Vardelm regarding the normalcy of usage. Using reduplication to form adverbs from verbs (or at least stative verbs) is extremely common (for instance in Asian languages like Mandarin and Thai), and reduplication of nouns often has sth to do with number and spatial distribution (Wakashan perhaps?) so I don’t see a problem there.