Zompist Bboard Again

Do we have any Québécois in the house? I remember we used to have two or three. I have several questions. I don't ask to receive an answer for everything in one go, just do what you can: time is a resource.


I am aware that endings with word-final a-ish sounds have /a/ in the passé simple and imparfait du subjonctif forms: tu aimas /tyɛma/, il aima /ilɛma/, elle aimât /ɛlɛma/. This is in contrast with most other such words (typically nouns and some function-like words), which have /ɑ/: je veux ça /ʒvøsɑ/, le matelas /ləmatlɑ/, là /lɑ/, là-bas /labɑ/, l'au-delà /lodlɑ/, Québécois /kebekwɑ/, le choix /ləʃwɑ/.

Question #1: what about the future -as and -a endings? Are they common enough that they have popular /ɑ/, or are they uncommon enough that they have /a/? Is tu aimeras rather like /t(y)ɛmʁɑ/ or /tyɛmʁa/?


Relatedly, many linguistic works on Quebec French say that /ɑ/, when phonetically short, is variously realized with formal [ɑ] or colloquial [ʌ] (note: this is the general IPA [ʌ], a back vowel, not the English "[ʌ]", and yes, I'm aware actual published works tend to simply use "[ɔ]" here). However, whenever I hear Quebec French I tend to simply hear [ʌ], e.g. je veux ça [ʒvøsʌ], trois /tʀwɑ/ [tʀ̥wʌ], but maybe the difference between formal [ɑ] and colloquial [ʌ] is more subtle than what my brain can perceive. (When /ɑ/ is phonetically long, it can be [ʌ:] or [ɑʊ] of course, as in pâte.)

Question #2: do you feel that these allophones, formal [ɑ] and colloquial [ʌ], continue to exist, or do you feel I might be somewhat right when I say it's mostly just [ʌ] nowadays, at least for "many" speakers?


There are various words that are known to differ between the French of Quebec City and that of Montreal, e.g. baleine Montreal /balɛ:n/ [balɛ̃ɪ̃n] ~ [balãɪ̃n] QCity /balɛn/ [balɛn], arrête Montreal /aʀɛ:t/ [aʀɛɪt] ~ [aʀaɪt] QCity /aʀɛt/ [aʀɛt], photo Montreal /foto/ [foʊto] QCity /fɔto/ [fʌto]. Someone from Quebec City once told me clôture is pronounced /klotyʀ/ [klotsʏyʀ] ([kloʊtsʏyʀ]?) in Quebec City but /klɔtyʀ/ [klʌtsʏyʀ] in Montreal.

Question #3: was that person right about clôture?


Some works say that Elle est où? can be pronounced [ɛ.u] ("è'où?") or [ale.u] ("a-l-est où?"), apparently with that epenthetic /l/ also heard in the equivalent of standard Ç'a bien été, [salabjæ̃nete] ("ça-l-a bien été"). However, in my not-at-all-extensive experience, I have only heard [ɛ.u].

Question #4: do people use [ale.u], and if so, how much do you feel they use it? Am I totally wrong if I say it's almost always [ɛ.u]?


Finally, some three morphophonological shenanigans.

Question #5: how extensive is the merger of non-final /o/ and /ɔ/ in open syllables? Does noter need to be [nʌte] or can it be [note] (well, [noʊte]...) as well? Does ça côtait have to be [sako(ʊ)tɛ] or can it be [sakʌtɛ] as well? What about chocolat, is that [ʃʌkʌlʌ] or [ʃokolʌ]? (French Wiktionary in fact has a recording with [ʃʌkʌlʌ], but I wonder if [ʃokolʌ] or maybe [ʃokʌlʌ] are possible.)

Question #6: can stem vowels with /ɑ/ gain length in verbs conjugated in the 1S/2S/3S present indicative/subjunctive, and retain a short vowel elsewhere? E.g. je me hâte [ʒmœ.ʌ:t] ~ [ʒmœ.ɑʊt] but se hâter [sœ.ʌte] (does it have to be [sœ.ʌ:te] ~ [sœ.ɑʊte]?). I notice pâté, derived from pâte, is often [pɑʊte]...

Question #7: What about the other lengthening-happy vowel, /o/, as in the adjective côtier ([koʊtje]?) cf. the related noun côte [koʊt], or the verb ôter [oʊte] ([ote]?) vs. j'ôte [ʒoʊt]. I notice that verbs with /ɛ:/ tend to retain a long stem (fêter [fɛɪte] ~ [faɪte]), but /ɛ:/ is its own beast.

Preface: I speak Eastern Ontarian French, which is pretty close to Outaouais French and somewhat close to Montreal French.

Q1: The sound change is from /ɛ/ to /a/ in an open syllable. So for the imperative form, "il aimait" /il ɛmɛ/ becomes [jama] (note the vowel change in the first syllable as well),"tu frappais" /ty fʁapɛ/ becomes [t͡sy fʁapa], "je mettais" /ʒəmɛtɛ/ becomes [ʒmata]. Note that I transcribe [a], but it might be closer to [æ].

For the future tense, the ending is /ɑ/ in Quebec French. Word-final /ɑ/ in an open syllable shifts to [ɔ] in dialects bordering the Outaouais region (Eastern Ontario - Western Quebec). So "il aimera" /il ɛmərɑ/ becomes [jɛmʁɔ] and "tu frapperas" /ty fʁapərɑ/ becomes [ty fʁapʁɔ]. Note that for the first person, it's a different vowel: "je mettrai" /ʒə mɛtʁe/ becomes [ʒmɛtʁe].

Q2: Personally, I would consider the short vowel /ɑ/ to have functionally become /ɔ/ in word-final open syllables, as in all of your examples (ça, trois, là, chat, etc.).

However, the long vowels remain contrastive. For example, "mâle" /mɑːl/ [mɑːl ~ mɑʊl] contrasts with "molle" [mɔːl].

Q3: This site maps out a lot of the changes you mentioned and the differences between Eastern Quebec and Western Quebec/Ontario: https://francaisdenosregions.com/2017/0 ... -montreal/

I personally pronounce clôture as [klɔt͡sʏːʁ], so I can confirm the Western pronunciation (aka Montreal pronunciation). I can't say if the Eastern Quebec (aka Quebec city) pronunciation is true.

Q4: "Elle" has the standard pronunciation [ɛl] and the colloquial pronunciation [a(l)]. The appearance of the "l" depends on whether the following word starts with a vowel or not. For example, "elle mange" [a mɑ̃ʊʒ] versus "elle écoute" [a.le.kʊt].

That said, the verb "être" is a bit exceptional. Here, "elle est" becomes [e(t)]. An intrusive "t" often surfaces to aid with liaison, but not always. So "Elle est où?" is pronounced [e.u], "elle est une..." is [e.tʏːn], "elle est après..." [e.ta.pʁa], "elle est allée..." [e.ta.le].

I would consider /a.le.u/ valid, but a bit odd. I'm sure people do use it occasionally without realizing, but I'd say it's not a common form.

Q5: I wouldn't consider there to be any merger between /o/ and /ɔ/. So "noter" can only be [nɔte] and "chocolat" can only be [ʃɔkɔlɔ].

Q6: The underlying vowel is /ɑː/ to me, which means that you can't have a shift to *ɔː here.

So "je me hâte" is [ʒmə.ɑːt], and "se hâter" is [sə.ɑː.te]. Likewise, "pâte" [pɑːt] and "pâté" [pɑː.te].

/ɑː/ can variably become [ɑʊ] in a closed syllable. Hence, "pâte" can become [pɑʊt], but "pâté" never becomes *pɑʊte.

For Montreal French, I believe [ɑː] in an open syllable does shift to [ɔː] and in a closed syllables it can lower from [ɑʊ] to [ɔʊ]. But here as well, the vowel "length" is retained. (Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about Montreal)

Q7: For /oː/, the diphthongization is more pronounced in closed syllables. So côte is [koʊt]. But it varies in open syllables. So côtier [koːt͡sje] would be my first instinct, but [koʊt͡sje] would also be fine.

Thanks a lot for making an account and writing your response! I thought of posting this on the CBB too (which I think you visit more regularly?), but thank you for the trouble.

Hakaku wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm"il aimait" /il ɛmɛ/ becomes [jama]

By the way, what do you say about the proportion of the use of [j] or [ i ] for il instead of [il]? Is it basically universal so it rests as a matter of (a low) register? Linguistic works on French (any kind of French) love to mention it is very common, but in my experience it is not yet universal, as I've met a good share of speakers (white speakers from France, if it is relevant) who always use [il], even when talking colloquially next to swear words or rather offensive words (e.g. comme il fait [ilfɛ] les corrections, c'est si chiant).

Note that I transcribe [a], but it might be closer to [æ].

For what it's worth, my little native-in-Spanish brain has never noticed anything weird about the Quebec French [ɛ] there (it just sounds [ɛ]-ish to me), so it's probably pronounced very much at the front of the vowel space...

That said, the verb "être" is a bit exceptional. Here, "elle est" becomes [e(t)]. An intrusive "t" often surfaces to aid with liaison, but not always. So "Elle est où?" is pronounced [e.u], "elle est une..." is [e.tʏːn], "elle est après..." [e.ta.pʁa], "elle est allée..." [e.ta.le].

I think it's funny how this [t] often gets called intrusive in linguistic works... Wouldn't it be better to say it is a conserved liaison, and reserve the term intrusive for its occurrence in e.g. je suis allé [ʃtale] ("j'-t-allé")? I understand it is because it maps with truly intrusive [t]s, but still.

Q6: The underlying vowel is /ɑː/ to me, which means that you can't have a shift to *ɔː here.

Great. What about the colloquial diphthongization of /ɑ:/ in a closed syllable? Could I say je me hâte /ʒmə.ɑ:t/ [ʒmœ.ɑʊt]?

So "je me hâte" is [ʒmə.ɑːt], and "se hâter" is [sə.ɑː.te]. Likewise, "pâte" [pɑːt] and "pâté" [pɑː.te].

/ɑː/ can variably become [ɑʊ] in a closed syllable. Hence, "pâte" can become [pɑʊt], but "pâté" never becomes *pɑʊte.

I just listened to several Canadian French speakers on YouTube showing how to make a pâté chinois to see if any would pronounce it [pɑʊte] as I (wrongly) thought, and I see none did!

To be honest I haven't visited the ZBB or CBB in a long time. Just happened to peruse and wanted to give you a response since no one else had yet!

By the way, what do you say about the proportion of the use of [j] or [ i ] for il instead of [il]? Is it basically universal so it rests as a matter of (a low) register? Linguistic works on French (any kind of French) love to mention it is very common, but in my experience it is not yet universal, as I've met a good share of speakers (white speakers from France, if it is relevant) who always use [il], even when talking colloquially next to swear words or rather offensive words (e.g. comme il fait [ilfɛ] les corrections, c'est si chiant).

I would say that the /l/ in "il" no longer exists in the colloquial register of Quebec/Ontario French and probably even Acadian French. The only time you really hear it is when people are reading or in formal situations (i.e. a hypercorrection to sound proper/more like standard media). I can't say how common dropping the /l/ is in France; it probably varies based on regional dialect and register.

For what it's worth, my little native-in-Spanish brain has never noticed anything weird about the Quebec French [ɛ] there (it just sounds [ɛ]-ish to me), so it's probably pronounced very much at the front of the vowel space...

To be fair, I consider the [ɛ] > [a] shift to be a more rural or slang pronunciation. It's really not as commonplace in the day-to-day language as other changes.

I think it's funny how this [t] often gets called intrusive in linguistic works... Wouldn't it be better to say it is a conserved liaison, and reserve the term intrusive for its occurrence in e.g. je suis allé [ʃtale] ("j'-t-allé")? I understand it is because it maps with truly intrusive [t]s, but still.

I couldn't tell you if it's a true etymological retention of /t/ in the third-person paradigm or a case of an intrusive /t/. Regardless, a [t] appears there

Great. What about the colloquial diphthongization of /ɑ:/ in a closed syllable? Could I say je me hâte /ʒmə.ɑ:t/ [ʒmœ.ɑʊt]?

Yes!