Zompist Bboard Again

A thread for variation in meanings across dialects of a language. Ideally stark ones, of course.

I'm not settled on the format for posts, but maybe something like:

English tip
US: an amount of money you're expected to add in many situations
UK: a facility for the handling of waste (i.e. a "dump" in the US), also a very messy room

French mes gosses
France: my kids
Quebec: my balls (my testicles)
(in France it has masculine gender, but in Quebec it has feminine gender, so if it's singular the joke doesn't often work: mon gosse 'my child', ma gosse 'my testicle')

Spanish chucha
El Salvador: a female dog, also a stingy woman, also a female player (typically in basketball) who doesn't like to pass the ball (colloquial word, insulting but not actually that insulting)
Chile: a woman's genitals (very vulgar word)

Spanish bicho
El Salvador: boy, young man (typically under 30 years old) (colloquial) (note: this word never means 'insect' as in international usage)
Nicaragua (and many other nearby dialects): penis (vulgar)

Spanish mara
El Salvador: a mass of people one belongs to (some of whom are one's friends but many are mere acquaintances: one's classmates, one's coworkers, one's co-travelers in a trip, the audience around one watching a movie or a soccer game), also a mafia in El Salvador (of which there are only three), also a drug gang in the United States
United States, Spain: a drug gang largely composed of young second-generation guys born from Salvadoran parents

Spanish acurrucarse
Spain: to cuddle (said of a loving couple)
El Salvador: to squat (in the inchoative meaning: to squat down --the stative is estar acurrucado)

Spanish pisar a alguien
Mexico, Spain (and probably most other countries): to treat somebody badly, oppress, ruin somebody (slightly informal word)
El Salvador: to have sex with somebody (vulgar word) (probably an extension of the ornithological use of this word for birds with internal fertilization)

Spanish cholo
- United States: a latino gangster, typically Mexican-American, associated with the drug world and a particular fashion involving shaved heads, bandanas, oddly-buttoned shirts, baggy pants, devil beards, etc.
- Mexico: a Mexican(-American) gangster whether in Mexico or the US, also typically associated with the drug world and the fashion above
- Colombia, Ecuador, Bolivia: a person of mostly indigenous ancestry, typically poor (the word is often used negatively)
- Peru: an average person, typically poor or rather poor, can be mostly indigenous or much more mestizo (the word is sometimes used positively)
- Chile: a brown-skinned immigrant from Ecuador, Peru or Bolivia (the word is often used negatively)
- El Salvador: a hunk, gymrat (a muscular guy), also someone who is good at a sport (especially if less physically strenuous, e.g. as a goalkeeper), chess, or at school (the word is always used positively) (chola can similarly apply positively to a woman for sports/chess/school)
- Costa Rica: a metalhead (a fan of heavy metal) (the gangster and poor indigenous meanings are also present when talking about the relevant countries mentioned above)

I came across one last night in a book of Hawai'ian Creole English (a.k.a. "Pidgin") terms:

English: pocho
Hawai'i: Portuguese
Mainland (esp. Southwest): a Mexican-American who speaks broken Spanish; broken Spanish

ETA:
French: caïman
Louisiana: alligator
France: caiman; (Ecole Normale Supérieure de Paris) instructor

Ser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:44 am English tip
US: an amount of money you're expected to add in many situations
UK: a facility for the handling of waste (i.e. a "dump" in the US), also a very messy room

This is the normal word for 'gratuity' in British English.

Richard W wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:43 pm

Ser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:44 am English tip
US: an amount of money you're expected to add in many situations
UK: a facility for the handling of waste (i.e. a "dump" in the US), also a very messy room

This is the normal word for 'gratuity' in British English.

For NAE and BE you almost need a diagram which indicates:

• The meanings unique to each dialect cluster
• The meanings common to both dialect clusters
• The meanings passively understood in one dialect cluster but not actively used

Like many any English words, "tip" can have over a dozen meanings, and most of them are shared.

Yes, that is entirely correct, although it is also the case that I was going for a funny punch there. The Spanish examples I mentioned are also a bit simplified (acurrucarse also means "to curl up (in order to feel warm)" in Spain, and pisar a alguien outside El Salvador can literally mean to step on somebody with your foot).

It reminds me of the joke about the difference between Indonesian language and Malaysian language (which despite the name, it's actually 2 dialects of the same language, Malay).

Percuma berbual 30 minit
Malaysian: Free talking for 30 minutes (about talking on telephone)
Indonesian: It's futile to boast nonsense for 30 minutes. (although the correct word for "minute" is "menit" in Indonesia)

Ketibaan
Malaysian: Arrival
Javanese Indonesian: Get hit from a falling object.

Banci
Malaysian: Census
Indonesian: A crude word for Waria

Ksatria Baja Hitam
Indonesian: Black Steel Warrior
Malaysian: Black Manure Warrior

There are surely hundreds of these in Sinitic when you take into account colloquial and literary readings of characters across various varieties.

Ser wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:44 am A thread for variation in meanings across dialects of a language. Ideally stark ones, of course.

Oh, there are lots between Quebec French and French as spoken in France:

Funnily enough, foufoune mirrors English fanny almost exactly. ('pussy' in France, 'bottom' in QFr)

écoeurant means 'very good' in QFr, but disgusting in French.

Others are common in Northern France (many of these are used in Quebec as well, though I don't know Quebec French well enough...)

petit-déjeûner, déjeûner, dîner vs. déjeûner dîner souper (breakfast, lunch, dinner)
bec 'a kiss' vs. 'beak'
rester 'to live (somewhere)' vs rester 'to stay'

In Southern France 'adieu' means 'goodbye', not 'farewell'.

In Belgium people say 'la toilette' for a restroom, in France it's 'les toilettes' (as the joke goes, in France you need to check several restrooms before finding a clean one...)

'un américain' is also a kind of sandwich in Belgium. Oh, and when you ask for 'un demi' in France, you'll get 'une demie pinte', that is 25 cl. In Belgium you get half a liter.

Ars Lande wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:01 am petit-déjeûner, déjeûner, dîner vs. déjeûner dîner souper (breakfast, lunch, dinner)

dinner/supper vs. lunch/dinner also exists in English, although lunch/dinner is winning and breakfast is always breakfast

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:57 am

Ars Lande wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:01 am petit-déjeûner, déjeûner, dîner vs. déjeûner dîner souper (breakfast, lunch, dinner)

dinner/supper vs. lunch/dinner also exists in English, although lunch/dinner is winning and breakfast is always breakfast

In my family when I was growing up it was breakfast/lunch/supper and my dad still sometimes calls it supper, but at some point I replaced "supper" with "dinner" so I now say breakfast/lunch/dinner.

Here's one that just came up in another discussion: alley.

In a lot of varieties of English, it seems to be used for a passage way between two urban structures. That's not the usage in the Midwest; here an "alley" is always wide enough to drive through and runs through the middle of a block, behind all the rows of buildings. That passageway that connects to it is called by various names. In Chicago, it's a "gangway". (In St Louis, I called it a "breezeway" but that doesn't seem to be widely-used term.)

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:43 pm Here's one that just came up in another discussion: alley.

In a lot of varieties of English, it seems to be used for a passage way between two urban structures. That's not the usage in the Midwest; here an "alley" is always wide enough to drive through and runs through the middle of a block, behind all the rows of buildings. That passageway that connects to it is called by various names. In Chicago, it's a "gangway". (In St Louis, I called it a "breezeway" but that doesn't seem to be widely-used term.)

I concur about "alley" being used here to refer to a wide gap that can be driven through, down the middle of a block, generally flanked by garages on both sides. About a gap between buildings that one cannot drive through, if it were paved partially or completely I would call it a "walkway", and I have no particular meaning for it if it is not paved.

I wouldn't call a passage an alley unless it were at least nominally meant to be driven on. A 'breezeway' has to be covered in my idiolect, and preferably is a kind of tunnel through a building.

I wouldn't call a passage wide enough to be driven on an alley.

An alley cat doesn't do no driving, just sayin'...


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:27 am An alley cat doesn't do no driving, just sayin'...

That makes no damn sense. You're more likely to spot alley cats in alleys than in gangways because alleys are wider. (I've seen an alley possum in mine.)

Here's another one that came up recently:

party store
Michigan: a liquor store
rest of the USA: a store selling party supplies [mostly paper goods, like decorations and disposable serving ware]
UK: a store selling party supplies [including fireworks] that usually (rents costumes)/(has fancy dress for hire)

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:43 pm Here's one that just came up in another discussion: alley.

In a lot of varieties of English, it seems to be used for a passage way between two urban structures. That's not the usage in the Midwest; here an "alley" is always wide enough to drive through and runs through the middle of a block, behind all the rows of buildings. That passageway that connects to it is called by various names. In Chicago, it's a "gangway". (In St Louis, I called it a "breezeway" but that doesn't seem to be widely-used term.)

The latter is reasonably well known in the UK as being something which there are a lot of local words for.
http://projects.alc.manchester.ac.uk/uk ... n/walkway/ has a map. NB ginnel has /g/, but gennel has /dʒ/. (Well, I guess the other options may exist, but that's how I've always heard them.)

Generally, in German, "Markt" means a market. But today I learned that in Bavaria, Austria, and South Tyrol, it also means a municipality that historically used to be a market town. That seems pretty weird to me.

Nortaneous wrote:I wouldn't call a passage wide enough to be driven on an alley.

Really? This isn't an alley for you?

Swedish semla
Sweden: a pastry eaten during Fat Tuesday
Finland: a bread roll

Swedish batong
Sweden: a police baton
Finland: baguette

Swedish rejäl handel
Finland: fairtrade
Sweden: not idiomatic in any way, but would mean something like extra commercial (which is kinda the opposite of fairtrade)
I think rejäl handel in Finno-Swedish is a mistranslation from the Finnish term reilu kauppa. The word reilu has two meanings: 1) fair, 2) a great amount. Meaning 1 is what's intended in reilu kauppa, but the Finno-Swedes translated meaning 2 instead.