Zompist Bboard Again

Disney's Atlantean, Sister Language to Klingon: Glossed Text #2018 2.22

I'm hand-copying my 11 2018 translation of the James Bateman Atlantis the Lost Empire fanfic and I found a part that I especially like that I'd like to share.
...

22


As for the Great Pyramid, it disappeared under the sea. A witness claimed a fire ball the size of the pyramid itself fell from the sky and splashed into the sea.



pyramid MUR
great MEK
sea MAR
under ZAK
disappear did it KENEH IM OT.



[[ Epi-Olmec seen, visible, public ken.e < keneh "disappear"


fire ball ATSIN DULIL
same pyramid size of NE MUR SEG AG
sky TOG TEM
from EK
fall did it, a witness claimed NAYEH I K M OT
and GIM
sea MAR TEM
against DEZ
"big whaled did it, a witness claimed" ME KETAK I K M OT.

...

Let's look at the very last word:
"it big whaled it, a witness claimed
/ big ME
whale KETAK
did I
a witness claimed K
did M
it OT /
Where -IM is Past Tense.

...

Here is the Text #2018 2.22 in the Atlantean Alphabet:





...


For the full text, plus etymology of words invented for the story, taken from many ancient and difficult languages, please visit:
Atlantean Translation of 2 James Bateman Stories
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... w=flipcard
and search:
disappear did it KENEH IM OT
...
Atlantean Grammar
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... w=flipcard
Atlantean Dictionary of Original Words (500)
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard
Atlantean Dictionary of Original Words and Invented Words (200,000)
https://app.box.com/s/g4sskwbylnuutxut80lbpqvqrs0p192z
See this homepage for all webpages by me on Atlantean:
https://anylanguageatall411.blogspot.co ... w=flipcard

Couple things...

1) Atlantean and Klingon are not "sister languages", this suggests that they are related and descendants of an older proto-form. About the only things they have in common are almost entirely CVC roots, and their creator...Oh, and that Leonard Nimoy spoke each of them at one time or another.

2) Atlantean has never been "finished", or fully fleshed out, so any work done after the release of the latest film (over 17 years ago) is purely speculative and most likely not reliable. I asked Marc Okrand about this at a dinner we shared during the production of the Conlanging Documentary.

3) Whatever work may or may not have been done by anyone, the interest for Atlantean here is extremely low, primarily because of reason 2 listed above.

Now, on to some more specific ideas:

Roots have internal structure based on Proto-Indo-European.

This is a very vague statement to make linguistically...do you mean phonemically/phonetically, morphologically, etc?

I suspect they might also have something like word-building endings.

Do you mean suffixes? Or clitics? Again, a very vague description.

Most words and word-parts are based on Proto-Indo-European.

OK, but there are notably other influences too, which merit mentioning in any analysis. Also, another wholly vague description.

The "dictionary", more accurately called a word-list, lacks significant notation that would assist anyone actually trying to learn or even halfway absorb the information. This includes; part of speech, pronunciation, usage notes, etc.

Atlantean is, for all intents and purposes, not a full conlang. It was developed for the movies and the animated series that never aired. That means that only what was needed for those scripts - and perhaps a margin of extra - was ever created. Analysis of such a project, while perhaps a worthy endeavor, will never garner any added original work, and anything that isn't original work...well, it isn't really Atlantean.

The situation with Klingon is an entirely different thing. Klingon continues to be used in ongoing productions, and people that I know and respect have been brought in to further the work that Okrand started almost 40 years ago. However, the KLI stopped updating its vocabulary fifteen years ago, for what it's worth.

masako wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:23 pm The situation with Klingon is an entirely different thing. Klingon continues to be used in ongoing productions, and people that I know and respect have been brought in to further the work that Okrand started almost 40 years ago. However, the KLI stopped updating its vocabulary fifteen years ago, for what it's worth.

What? Their section New Klingon Words was updated as late as the twentieth of this year's April, and all the words are Okrand-created (or approved).

Vilike wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:35 am What? Their section New Klingon Words was updated as late as the twentieth of this year's April, and all the words are Okrand-created (or approved).

My mistake. I'll update my links. Thank you.

masako

No, it doesn't suggest that, necessarily. They're both made by the same purpose and correspond in concept.

I would say it's finished and sufficiently decipherable. No, it's quite reliable.

You must misunderstand Okrand or he didn't remember. I've corresponded with him quite a bit the last 3 years and he doesn't seem to remember much about Atlantean.

You can examine the corpus yourself, I posted a link in one of my recent posts.

...

Well, I wrote it off the top of my head and might have gotten some terms wrong. I tried.

"A full conlang". Well, that's subjective. I would say it's full enough. The basics of the grammar are there. We have 500 words, about 400 decipherable words.


...

Thank-you everyone else for your replies!

In a lot of ways, Atlantean is more fleshed out and realistic than Klingon.

No one else seems to realize it or comment on it, but the Klingon Language as presented in "The Klingon Dictionary" is very different from the Klingon Language known and used by its fans since. Fans should have made their own words and idioms consistent with what was in The Klingon Dictionary instead of slavishly only using the words in the The Klingon Dictionary and then the very few that Okrand has made ever since.

At least Atlantean isn't held back by a sophisticated group of amateurs. We study the original words as much as we have enthusiasm for, then we make new ones in a somewhat realistic manner.

Atlantean is decipherable, though. For about 3/4 of the corpus, we have English translations. Some words repeat. And then most parts of speech are tagged with morphemes that come in a single paradigm. Even the word order is very strict.

There is not a lot more to it than is summarized in this grammar, at least as far as what Okrand made:

https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... w=flipcard

Here is the Text #2018 2.22 in the Atlantean Alphabet: