Zompist Bboard Again

This started off as a very quick question, but developed several sub-questions, which then had question babies of their own, but here goes -- how (and why) did the Suböyi get to the Irenža? Up the Lernukh? Bringing horses? Through Elkarinor -- or through passes to the west, near the múrtani? (Sounds dangerous! -- and like there's probably a good story in there somewhere.)*

Then, who lives in Zanbalikh? ("Zanui" -- a settled Samoyi subgroup from further south? Or just 'Suböyi' who didn't migrate north?) I see in the Rhânor article that Barakhûn conquered the area for a while. But do the Zanui have any contact with elcari? Múrtani?

I see that the Suböyi coordinate with the Samoyi in their raids and conquests. So they maintain a cultural affinity and close relationships despite the terrain, and the terrifying neighbours?

Moreover, what relationship do the Suböyi have with the Verdurians/Barakhinei in Lácatur? How about with the Westerners? And (final question I promise), who lives in Funky? (I suspect the answer is 'many different peoples', but it's worth asking.)

I'm piecing together a picture of Rhânor as a distinct (though marginal) cultural area, with a Samoyi speaking majority (perhaps a dialect continuum stretching the length of the Lernukh), Barakhinei elite, hybrid nomadic/settled society dependent equally on the river and the horse, regular contact with the Suböyi via the Lernukh through the Elkarin Mountains, some relations with Ešan as well as Benécia, Hroth and Barakhûn, probably regular trade with the elcari, and probably endemic fear and hatred of the múrtani. Am I barking up the right tree?

Don't feel that you have to answer all of these questions at once -- but any more info you can throw at me will no doubt help assuage my curiosity (and is tangentially relevant to my next Almean musical adventure)!

*Or the east, at Perecaln?

The basics here: the Somoyi-Meťelyi in general (the light green people) are people of the steppe. They've been there for thousands of years, largely as nomads, and indeed they were the people who domesticated the horse.

The Suböyi are their northern branch, who don't interact much with the Somoyi proper south of the mountains-- which are, as you guess, a difficult barrier. You can get through, especially along the upper Lernukh, but also farther west off the edge of the Historical Atlas map. But the northern steppe is smaller in extent and has never been very important even in nomadic history. (The Suböyi first appear on the 2310 map, but this doesn't mean that they had recently arrived-- it means that this is the point where we can easily distinguish them from the Somoyi.)

Rhânor isn't as important as it looks. It's desert, rocky or sandy, though as it's only 200 miles wide, it's not a huge obstacle to horsemen. You'll notice that it's blank in the historical maps. The nomads live on the steppe or along the river; people in Rhânor itself are limited to oases, seasonal wadis, and desert foraging. The people are mostly Somoyi, though the pitiable little king is Barakhinei.

The Lernukh is quite fertile, and for centuries there have been agriculturalists there. This is the region the Barakhinei conquered, though holding it was more trouble than it was worth. The farmers would be a mixture of Barakhinei and Somoyi (Zanui is the local language).

People from Eretald have been colonizing the mountain valleys for years; their density is low compared to Eretald itself, but high compared to the steppe itself. The regions between the valleys are still Suböyi. Relationships have been up and down: the Suböyi have sometimes seen the Verdurians etc. as invaders, or at least easy targets. But the settlers are too numerous to dislodge, and the nomads eventually find that trade with minimal raiding is more profitable anyway. Funky is a settler town. As you guess, the people are an ethnic mishmash, but the lingua franca is Verdurian. Lácatur is certainly important as a source of settlers.

In this whole area the elcari would function as "the big city"-- not a place of entertainment or government, but where the good manufactures come from, including weapons. That may be one reason no big towns have developed along the Lernukh (Zanbalikh is only a big deal if you're a nomad).

I hope this doesn't throw too much cold water on your plans. No reason nomads can't be important musicologically.

zompist wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:23 pmI hope this doesn't throw too much cold water on your plans. No reason nomads can't be important musicologically.

No no, this is brilliant. Along the lines I was thinking too - I just didn't express myself that well. And exactly, terrestrially, nomads (as well as traders and explorers) have had a big impact in spreading musical ideas about the place. You only need to hear something interesting once to develop a curiosity as to how to produce something similar with your own tools, and nomads get to sample agriculturalists' diversions plenty when they invade. Especially if your culture is still oral and without big population centres it's likely to be a sponge for those musical ideas from outside which translate well to your lifestyle. (That, and the more portable musical instruments are nice and stealable, even if their construction would evade local craftsmanship - or approximate versions can be made, adding local flavour).

When it comes to Rhânor, the thing that got me curious is the proximity of the elcari - music-making peoples who craft exceedingly fine tools for whatever job is at hand, and wander around offering to make things for people.

A sneak peak at my plans here -- I'm thinking two pieces:

1) a sad song of Lácatur. Decidedly more Eretaldian*, but taking something from 'barbarian music' i.e. the cultural milieu described here. (Not necessarily for this song, but I had this idea that wandering Lácaturians would accompany themselves with tent pegs for full romantic emphasis of their dejectedness, at least when the song, while sad, has a bit of energy. Imagine the vibe of, say, The Raggle Taggle Gypsies, with tent peg percussion. This actually would be borrowing from the soundscape of the elcari, heavy on unpitched metallic percussion, see below.)

2) a percussion piece called 'Čomolunma' as heard in Funky influenced as much as anything else by elcarin music (which can be extremely rhythmically intricate. I have got a few notes on elcarin music now, which I'll share soon, but rather than try to write some just yet, I want to write something that humans who have heard elcarin music, but don't have 300-600 years to perfect it, might be inspired to create.)

NB elcari have melodic music too (I've been through the lexicon and written out maybe a hundred terms which give a lot of suggestions about their varied music) but with their interest in mathematics, long lives, and disdain for literature longer than a riddle, I think short, exciting, rhythmically infernally complex pieces improvised and then remembered communally (and then intricately carved somewhere, too, if they're good enough) with each individual taking something to tap on something else would be a prevalent genre/pastime.

*Is this a word?

One tiny followup; I definitely remember reading the detail that the Suböyi would join the Samoyi in their incursions into Eretald.

To me this suggests that there was some sort of communication between the two. Was it just a single delegation that went up to ask the Suböyi to get involved? Or is there something like a very intermittent 'big meeting' of clans or clan leaders that can be called at times of crisis or opportunity (such as the Mongols had to choose their leaders)? Maybe no more than once or twice in any lifetime i.e. on average less than once per generation... but just enough that coordination between the peoples south and north of the mountains was possible?

Or did the rumour just spread (via the elcari, via Barakhûn, via Lácatur) that there was a big invasion going on - so the Suböyi got on the bandwagon?

sasasha wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:40 am When it comes to Rhânor, the thing that got me curious is the proximity of the elcari - music-making peoples who craft exceedingly fine tools for whatever job is at hand, and wander around offering to make things for people.

For the region as a whole, I'd use Nalernukh, or just Somoyi. (Though if you're reproducing a popular Verdurian mindset, Řanor could work, as people will know the word, because of the mountains of that name.)

(I should probably add that Nalernukh is Barakhinei, not Verdurian, for “North Lernukh”. I'd probably say Lernuknáe in Verdurian.)

1) a sad song of Lácatur. Decidedly more Eretaldian*, but taking something from 'barbarian music' i.e. the cultural milieu described here. (Not necessarily for this song, but I had this idea that wandering Lácaturians would accompany themselves with tent pegs for full romantic emphasis of their dejectedness, at least when the song, while sad, has a bit of energy. Imagine the vibe of, say, The Raggle Taggle Gypsies, with tent peg percussion. This actually would be borrowing from the soundscape of the elcari, heavy on unpitched metallic percussion, see below.)

You can certainly be both sad and lively, as in flamenco. A Romani vibe would definitely be appropriate!

*Is this a word?

Checking my notes, looks like I've been using Eretaldan.

the Suböyi would join the Samoyi in their incursions into Eretald

Yeah, that's here. If the Somoyi were planning a major operation, they'd call on the Suböyi directly. The languages are not mutually intelligible, but a few people would know both languages. (Another good nomad skill!)

sasasha wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:40 am I think short, exciting, rhythmically infernally complex pieces improvised and then remembered communally (and then intricately carved somewhere, too, if they're good enough) with each individual taking something to tap on something else would be a prevalent genre/pastime.

You might want to look up the polyphonic music of the Bayaka ‘pygmies’, if you haven’t already; it sounds very similar to what you’re talking about here. (On the other hard, it seems very hard to get any solid information about their music, which is why I can’t say much more than that.)

Thanks, both, that's great!

Another RW influence is this (Vietnamese):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U7e85m6VxLU