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Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:56 am
by Vijay
I figured in addition to the Malayalam lessons thread, I'll start a thread on assorted Dravidian language varieties in case anyone's interested. (This particular post is mostly copied from a few similar posts I wrote a few years ago on a different forum).

This post features a clip from a TV series called [ɲəˈŋa n̪iˈŋa], meaning something like 'our and y'all's' in some nonstandard variety of Malayalam. It has 60 episodes, each of which showcases a language variety spoken either in or very close to Kerala and teaches a few words and phrases in each. Most episodes seem to be for varieties of Malayalam, but there is also at least one episode each for Tulu and Beary, two for Paniya, and apparently even one for a variety of Telugu spoken in northern Kerala!

This is the first episode, about the variety of Malayalam spoken in a village called Puthussery [pud̪uɕˈɕeːɾi] in Palakkad district. One or two of the new words is also used in Thiruvalla, where my parents are from, even though Thiruvalla is not particularly close to Palakkad (possibly closer than the host's hometown, though, since he's apparently from Kozhikode, which is much further north). Another vocabulary item that wasn't too surprising was [kɔjˈjaːka] for 'guava', since Palakkad is very close to Tamil Nadu and the Tamil equivalent AFAIK is something like [kɔjˈjaːpaɭam] (in our variety of Malayalam, and I guess also in the standard variety, it's [ˈpeːɾɛkʲa], which apparently comes from pera meaning 'pear' in Portuguese):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6htWW5353q8

These are the words covered in the video:

[ˈaːʋi] - 'heat'. For us, this means 'steam', and 'heat' is [ˈt͡ʃuːɖɯ].
[t̪aːj] - 'handle'. We would say [piˈɖi] or [pɪˈɖi] like in the video.
[ˈmoːn̪d̪i] - 'evening'. I think we normally say [ˈʋɐjʈɯ] for this; the video uses the slightly more formal/standard equivalents [sən̪ˈd̪ʱja] (from Sanskrit) and [ʋɐjgʊn̪ˈn̪eːɾəm] instead.
([kɛɳɛˈtɪnde]) [pəɭˈɭa] - 'side (of a well)'. I think we would say [ʋəˈɕəm]. (The written text in) the video says [kəˈɾa], which maybe we would use, too, but I'm more familiar with this word in the sense of a border, shore, or riverbank.
[t͡ʃəgɨˈɖiːm t̪oːɳˈɖiːm] - 'bucket and rope'. I think we would say [kɔˈʈejʊm kaˈjərʊm] or, more casually, [kɔˈʈeːm ˈkajrʊm]. The video (text) says [kəˈpijʊm kaˈjərʊm], but I'm more familiar with [kəˈpi] meaning the kind of dough (made of rice flour) we use for making appams.
[ˈmiːrɯ] - The video claims that this word means 'ant(s)'. We say [uˈrumbɯ] or [ʊˈrʊmbɯ]. However, I think my dad said that (he thinks) [ˈmiːrɯ] means a specific kind of ant that we call something else (I don't remember for sure which kind, though; I'm sure he mentioned [ˈt͡ʃoːnɛn] but not whether he said that was the same thing or he said something like "not that one, the other one!" I think "the other one" might be called [iˈrumbɯ] and that the local guy teaching him the word might have been using to translate it into more standard Malayalam only for the host to "correct" him with the generic term [uˈrumbɯ]). IIRC, [ˈt͡ʃoːnɛn] is a big but harmless black ant, and [iˈrumbɯ] is a smaller but much more poisonous red ant but not a fire ant, often seen fighting a [ˈt͡ʃoːnɛn], and my dad used to tell his (younger) brother stories about these two kinds of ants fighting.
[ˈt͡ʃoːʈikʲɯ] - 'down(wards)'. I think we'd say [ˈt̪aːɻe], but the video says [ˈt̪aːɻət̪ɯ], which I'd think of as referring to a location rather than a direction (but I can see it being used for the direction, too).
[ˈt͡ʃən̪d̪ɯ] or [ˈsən̪d̪ɯ] - 'road'. We say [ʋəˈɻi] like in the video.
[jiˈɖɯliʋəɻi] - 'side street'. We say [jiˈɖəʋəɻi] or [jɛˈɖəʋəɻi] like in the video.
[ˈʋeːlit̪əri] or [ˈʋeːlt̪əri] - 'wire fence' (if I understood correctly). We don't really have a word for this, hence the long-winded gloss in the video.
[pəˈsu] instead of [pəˈɕu] for 'cow' is just the same as in Tamil.
[pəˈɳiːm t̪ɔˈɾoːm ilˈleː] - apparently something like 'don't you have any work to do?'. [pəˈɳi ɔn̪ˈn̪um ilˈleː] literally means 'isn't there any work at all?' and is a common expression in Malayalam for 'don't you have anything else/better to do?' [pəˈɳiːm t̪ɔˈɾoːm] sounds like 'work and' + some word I don't recognize.
[pɛˈʈəmma] - 'girl'. We'd say [pɛɳˈkuʈi] like in the video.
[n̪əŋˈgi] - apparently 'tongue sole', a type of fish I'm unfamiliar with even in English. The video seems to suggest that it's more widely known as [ˈmaːn̪d̪a], and the guy says that in Kannur and Kasaragod, in northern Kerala, they say [n̪əŋˈgɯ]. I wouldn't know about any of that. :P
[t̪əˈla muˈrijɛn məˈt̪i] - 'dried sardines'. We'd say [ɔˈɳəkija məˈt̪i] (literally 'dried sardines') like in the video or maybe [məˈt̪i ɔˈɳəkijəd̪ɯ] (literally 'sardines' + 'that which [unspecified subject] dried'). The written text in the white bubble is more vague and reads [ɔɳəkəˈmiːn], which just means 'dried fish'. [t̪əˈla muˈrijɛn məˈt̪i] sounds like it literally means 'sardines with their heads cut off'!
[t̪umˈmɯn̪n̪ɯ ʋaː] - 'come quick', maybe literally something like 'come so fast it sounds like zoom/[t̪umm]'? We'd say [pɛˈʈɛn̪n̪ɯ ʋaː] like in the video.
[ˈjiːt̪ɯ ʋəˈlikʲʊga] - 'to drag away'. The video text says [ʋəlit͡ʃɛˈɻəkʊga] (this was misspelled; should be [ʋəlit͡ʃɛˈɻɛkʲʊga]). I suppose that's what we'd say, too.
[məˈri] - 'time' (as in one time, two times, three times...). We could say [t̪əˈʋəɳa], the Dravidian word used in the video (for which a cognate is apparently only attested in Tamil), or we could say [ˈpraːʋəɕjəm], which usually seems to be pronounced [ˈpraːʋəɕəm] but is also often pronounced [ˈpraːɕəm] or even just [ˈraːɕəm].
[ˈɖaːʋɯ] - 'lie'. We use this word in our area, too (my dad especially uses this word a lot, but I didn't realize what it actually meant until I asked him about it soon after discovering this video. I always thought it meant exaggerating or insulting or something). The standard Malayalam term seems to be [kəɭˈɭəm], which we also use but can also mean 'theft'. Another less ambiguous word for 'lie' in standard Malayalam, also used in the video, is [n̪ɔˈɳa].
[puˈɭu] - Same as [ˈɖaːʋɯ] but probably more specific to Puthussery since I've never heard this word before
[ʋɛɭɯˈt̪əmma] - 'paternal aunt'. I'm actually not sure what exactly we say for this since I call each of my paternal aunts by a different title/nickname.
[kuˈʈijəpɛn] - 'dad's younger brother'. We say [uˈpaːpɛn]. The host in the video says that where he comes from (Kozhikode, apparently), they say [kuˈʈəpɛn].
[kɔˈʈiːm ˈpuɭɭum] - some kind of kids' game, demonstrated in the video from 17:21 to 18:00. The video just translates this to the equivalent of 'kid and stick'.
[koːˈʈaːj] - 'yawn'. The video translates this as [koːʈɯˈʋaːj], but my dictionary just says [koːʈɯˈʋaː]. I don't remember which of these last two forms we use. [ʋaːj] is usually spelled as if it should be pronounced [ʋaːja] and means 'mouth'. [ˈkoːʈɯga] apparently means 'to bend, twist'.
[ʋəˈɭəm] - The video translates this word as [ˈt͡ʃaːɳəgəm] 'cowdung', but I wasn't aware of [ʋəˈɭəm] as a regionalism and thought it just meant 'fertilizer'. I'm not sure why they chose to include it in this video (does it specifically mean cowdung in this area?).
[ˈpaːsəm] - 'love', I guess. They say it means [ˈsneːhəm], which can mean 'love' but also just 'being nice'. I'm not sure what meaning they were going for here. Tamil has this word as well.
[ˈmuːnd͡ʒi] and [ˈmoːrɯ] - both 'face'. We'd say [muˈkʰəm] formally to match the spelling, but we can also pronounce it [mɔˈgəm] like in the video or even (probably more likely) [mɔˈhəm].
[ˈkuːʈəm ˈkuːɖʊga] - 'to talk, converse, have a conversation'. In other varieties of Malayalam, this means 'to gather around, assemble'. For this meaning, we may use [səmˈsaːɾikʲʊga] as in the video but only as a formal term. Informally, we would say [ʋərˈt̪aːnəm pəˈrejʊga].
[ˈoːd̪əm] - 'dampness'. The video translates this as [ˈiːrpəm]. [n̪əˈnəʋɯ] 'wetness' is another possible (near-)synonym.
[kəɳˈɖəm ˈpuːʈɯga] - 'to plow a field'. For us (and I guess other Malayalees, and probably even in this variety in other contexts), [ˈpuːʈɯga] means 'to lock'. They translate this as [uˈɻɯd̪ɯ məˈrikʲʊga] (literally something like 'to plow and turn over (the soil)'). My dictionary also says just [uˈɻʊga] means 'to plow the field'. I don't remember what term we use.

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:44 pm
by Travis B.
Vijay wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:56 am This post features a clip from a TV series called [ɲəˈŋa n̪iˈŋa], meaning something like 'our and y'all's' in some nonstandard variety of Malayalam. It has 60 episodes, each of which showcases a language variety spoken either in or very close to Kerala and teaches a few words and phrases in each. Most episodes seem to be for varieties of Malayalam, but there is also at least one episode each for Tulu and Beary, two for Paniya, and apparently even one for a variety of Telugu spoken in northern Kerala!
If we only had more of this! Minority languages are so easily overlooked, such that it would be nice of they got this sort of attention.

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:16 pm
by Vijay
Travis B. wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:44 pm
Vijay wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:56 am This post features a clip from a TV series called [ɲəˈŋa n̪iˈŋa], meaning something like 'our and y'all's' in some nonstandard variety of Malayalam. It has 60 episodes, each of which showcases a language variety spoken either in or very close to Kerala and teaches a few words and phrases in each. Most episodes seem to be for varieties of Malayalam, but there is also at least one episode each for Tulu and Beary, two for Paniya, and apparently even one for a variety of Telugu spoken in northern Kerala!
If we only had more of this! Minority languages are so easily overlooked, such that it would be nice of they got this sort of attention.
Apparently, there is a Catalan show called Caçadors de paraules ('Word Hunters') and a Galician show called Ben falado ('Well Spoken') that are similar.

Incidentally:
Vijay wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:56 amPuthussery
There's also a Wikipedia article about the Puthussery grama panchayat (village council) as well as a disambiguation page that also includes links for Puthussery East, Puthussery West, and Puthussery Central, which apparently are officially different villages.
[ˈɖaːʋɯ] - 'lie'. We use this word in our area, too (my dad especially uses this word a lot, but I didn't realize what it actually meant until I asked him about it soon after discovering this video. I always thought it meant exaggerating or insulting or something). The standard Malayalam term seems to be [kəɭˈɭəm], which we also use but can also mean 'theft'. Another less ambiguous word for 'lie' in standard Malayalam, also used in the video, is [n̪ɔˈɳa].
One thing the video kind of glosses over is that the verb used with this word for 'lie' is different from the one used for the other two standard Malayalam terms. 'To lie' using the other two forms is either [kəɭˈɭəm pəˈrejuga] ('to say a lie') or [n̪ɔˈɳa pəˈrejuga] (same literal meaning). However, the verb used with [ˈɖaːʋɯ] is not [pəˈrejuga] 'to say' but rather [əˈɖikʲuga] 'to hit, beat', thus [ɖaːʋ əˈɖikʲuga] 'to lie'.

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:25 am
by Linguoboy
Quick question on intelligibility:

I’m reading a short story set in a fictional town in Karnataka. The upper class speaks Kannada but 90% of the inhabitants speak a variety of Tulu. At one point the protagonist, who is the child of a Brahmin father and a low-caste mother, overhears a conversation “in a language he couldn’t understand” and surmises that it must be Malayalam. I thought there was some mutual intelligibility between Malayalam and Tulu so I’m not sure if the implication is meant to be that he doesn’t speak any Tulu.

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:30 am
by Vijay
Nope, Tulu is not mutually intelligible with Malayalam at all (except maybe for some direct loanwords from Malayalam in at least one variety).

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:26 pm
by Vijay
Just in case anyone was curious as to what the background song in the last video was, I think it was this (approximation of lyrics listed as song #11 here in Malayalam script).

The second episode is set in Perambra [peːˈɾaːmbra], Kozhikode district, in northern Kerala, near one of the biggest cities in Kerala and also near where Vasco da Gama landed. The new words are:

[oˈɾoːli] - a kids' game. IIUC, it's basically a game of tag that starts with everyone touching a coconut tree. One person tags one of the people touching a tree, and then they're it and have to tag the next person
[mənd͡ʒəˈplaːʋɯ] - 'old jackfruit tree'. This isn't highlighted in the video, but the host does ask what it means. They clarify that it means [ʋəjəˈsaːja ˈplaːʋɯ] or [pəˈɻəkɔɭɭa ˈplaːʋɯ]
[ˈkaːɾɰa] - 'to climb' or [ˈkeːruga] (or [ˈkeːrɰa]), spelled as if to be pronounced /kajaruka/. I'm guessing [ˈkaːɾuga] is a valid pronunciation in this variety
[ˈkɔɭɭɯ] - 'courtyard' or [pəˈrəmbɯ], or 'raised bank of soil' or [ˈməɳd̪iʈa]
[kuˈruŋɯne] - 'as a shortcut', 'instead of going the long way', or something similar. They translate this as [muˈrit͡ʃiʈɯ], which literally means 'having cut'. [kuˈrukɯʋəɻi] is listed in dictionaries as meaning 'shortcut'
[ˈt̪aːje] - 'down' or [ˈt̪aːɻe]. Some Malayalam-speakers replace [ɻ] with [j]
[ˈkuːʋa] - a kind of plant that produces arrowroot, apparently used for medicinal purposes. Not a dialect-specific term as far as I'm aware, but it trips up the host nevertheless (I had no idea about any of this stuff until I looked it up just now)
[ʋəjˈjəprəm] - 'backyard', translated as [pinˈnaːmbɔrəm], a term I wasn't previously familiar with! :P
[kojˈjaːkaːɾɛn] - 'guy who climbs the coconut tree and collects coconuts'. Doesn't have a direct equivalent in any other variety of Malayalam that I know of
[pɔˈt̪eːɳi] - 'ladder'. We just say [ˈjeːɳi] like the host. I'm not sure what the etymology of the other part of the local term is. [pɔˈkuga] means 'to carry on/over your head', though
[t̪əˈɭa] - 'noose'. Apparently, the standard term is [t̪əˈɭəpɯ]
[ˈʋaːkət̪i] - 'knife for cutting down coconuts'. The more common pronunciation at least in the video seems to be [ˈbaːkɛti]; this /ʋ/ > [ b ] change is characteristic of northern Kerala and also found in Lakshadweep. [kəˈt̪i] is the Malayalam word for 'knife'
[ˈkəɳɖi] - 'step'. They just translate this to English in the video. Traditionally, at least, we would say [pəˈɖi]
[uˈpeːɾi] - glossed over in this video. In northern Kerala, this means 'stir-fried plantains'. In southern Kerala, it means '(deep-fried) plantain chips' (or crisps, if you're British)
[t͡ʃɔˈɳəŋɰa] - 'to scrape'. We would (apparently!) say [t͡ʃɔˈɾəɳɖɰa] or [t͡ʃɔˈɾəɳɖuga] (prescriptively [t͡ʃuˈɾəɳɖuga]). I'm guessing [t͡ʃɔˈɳəŋuga] would be correct in this variety as well
[jɛˈɖeːwuːɖe] - 'through the side road', for us [jeɖəʋəɻijilˈkuːɖe] or perhaps [jeɖəʋəɻiːˈkuːɖe], incorrectly transcribed in the video as if it were pronounced *[jɛˈɖeːkuːɖa] (note how the transcription mistakenly suggests a pronunciation closer to how we would pronounce it, which is probably also the standard form)
[t̪iˈɾimbuga] - 'to do laundry'. The host points out that this is a false friend with standard Malayalam where this means 'to massage'. We would say [t̪uˈɳi n̪əˈnɛkʲuga], literally 'to get clothes wet'
[ˈpiːja] - 'to squeeze (out)', presumably from the standard term [piˈɻijuga] as a result of the /ɻ/ > [j] sound change mentioned above; the past tense form is apparently [ˈpiːɲi]
[oˈlumbuga] - 'to wash' or [kəˈɻuguga]
[oːl oːɖ ˈɨɳɖɯ] - not really listed but mentioned unclearly to mean 'he (or she/they?) is there', presumably corresponding to something like [aːɭ əˈʋiɖe ˈjɔɳɖɯ]. [aːɭ] again means 'person' but isn't a very polite term for 'person'
[kuˈt̪uːɭijiɖuga] - 'to dive', translated as [muˈŋaːŋguɻijiɖuga] although I would think [ˈmuŋuga] to be an acceptable translation
[haːjˈjaːɾɯ] - 'hajji', i.e. Muslim who has completed the hajj or pilgrimage to Mecca at least once. Listed in my dictionary as either [ˈhaːd͡ʒi] or, like the translation on the show, [haːˈd͡ʒjaːɾɯ]
[ˈkoːpɛɾa] - 'hut for storing firewood', misleadingly spelled in the video as if to be pronounced *[ˈkoːpɔɾa] and then mispronounced by the host as *[ˈkoːpuɾa], [puˈɾa] being a standard Malayalam term for 'hut'
[kajˈjaːɭɯ] - 'assistant', literally 'hand person', translated using the Sanskrit loanword [saˈhaːj]
[ˈuːɾəɾud̪ɯ]! - 'don't slip (and fall)!' or [ˈt̪en̪n̪i ˈʋiːɻəɾud̪ɯ]. 'To fall' for us is [ˈʋiːɻuga], and 'to slip' for us is [ˈt̪en̪n̪uga] so I guess in this variety, it would be [ˈuːɾuga], which for us would mean 'to take (something) off'!
[ʋigˈgəɾud̪ɯ]! - 'don't fall!' or [ˈʋiːɻəɾud̪ɯ]; maybe 'to fall' is [ˈʋigguga] then
[umˈmaːɾət̪e ˈt̪ɛŋɯ] - 'the coconut tree in the front' or [ˈmunʋəɕət̪e ˈt̪ɛŋɯ]. I think [ˈmunnilət̪e ˈt̪ɛŋɯ] would work as a translation into standard Malayalam as well. I'm guessing [umˈmaːɾəm] means 'front'
[ʋənˈniŋʲa] - IIUC this means 'medium-sized coconut'
[moˈt͡ʃulɯ] - 'big coconut'? They gloss over this quickly and don't translate it clearly, so I'm not sure
[ʋɛɭəˈt͡ʃɪlɯ] - apparently a kind of toy made by bending twigs(?) at the top of a (coconut?) tree. I think this means something more like 'fussing' in at least one other variety of Malayalam (not sure which). [ʋəˈɭət͡ʃɛl] means 'bend' even in standard Malayalam
[kɔˈɾəɭɯ] - 'top of the coconut tree' or [ˈt̪ɛŋinde ˈməɳɖa]
[əɖiˈt͡ʃaːɾa] - 'net-like thing at the top of the coconut tree'
[məˈnut͡ʃen] - 'man'. I noticed this is how the speaker pronounces the Sanskrit loanword /manuʃjan/ around 14:53. We would say [ˈmənʃɛn]
[ɔɳəˈkoːla] - 'dried palm leaves' or [ɔˈɳəŋija ˈoːla]
[paːn̪ˈd̪oːn] - 'fiber on the back of a palm leaf'
[maːˈɳoː]? - 'do (you) want?' or [ʋeːˈɳoː]? IINM low-caste people near where my parents live regularly replace /ʋ/ with [m], so this is probably a fairly common sound change
[ˈkiːja] - 'to come down, descend' or [jɛˈrəŋuga]. [ˈkiːɻe] means 'down' (it's synonymous with [ˈt̪aːɻe], although IME we don't say [ˈkiːɻe] and only use [ˈkiːɻ]- in compound nouns) even in standard Malayalam
[poːjiˈkiː] - 'go ahead and go!' or [pɔˈkʲoːɭuː]

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:17 pm
by Vijay
So it turns out my dad already knows most of the words in my first post in this thread and even a few of the ones from the second episode of Njanga Ninga.

The third episode features the Paniya language and is set in Mananthavady [maːnən̪d̪əˈʋaːɖi], Wayanad [ʋəjəˈn̪aːɖɯ] district, immediately to the northeast of Kozhikode district. One of the men in this video claims that Paniya is spoken all over Wayanad district; I also know for a fact that it is spoken in the Nilgiri Hills near Gudalur in Tamil Nadu, and Wikipedia claims that there are a few hundred speakers in Karnataka as well. At the beginning of this episode, the host claims to be from Thiruvilwamala, about halfway in between Mananthavady and my parents' hometown, Thiruvalla. The new words are:

[n̪ɪˈrɯt̪a] - 'to stop', i.e. [ˈn̪irt̪ɯga] or [n̪iˈrɯt̪ɯga]. This was the first word I noticed about 40 seconds in although it isn't actually listed in the video.
[ˈn̪iːŋgə] - 'y'all' or 'you (formal)'. Most Tamils would probably use this exact same word. We would say [ˈn̪iŋəɭ].
[ˈoːɖə] - 'there', i.e. [əˈʋiɖe]. I have seen a similar form in Jeseri, spoken in Lakshadweep, so I'm guessing this is probably a common non-standard form.
[jiˈraːkaːn] - 'to get off'. I would say [jɛrəˈkaːn], but phonemically, it's /irakkaːn/. Note that the first phoneme surfaces as [ i ] in Paniya because of the second vowel being lengthened and thus blocking the /i/ > [e] sound change.
[ˈkawt̪ɯ] - 'neck', i.e. [kəˈɻut̪ɯ]
[ˈuːɖɯt̪e] - 'from here', i.e. [jiˈʋiɖət̪e]. This seems to be a common enough pronunciation among native speakers of Malayalam that I'm not sure it's specific to Paniya at all.
[muˈkət̪e] - 'on top (describing a noun)'. Given how similar all this is to Malayalam, I'm guessing 'top' in Paniya is [muˈkəm]. This is translated into Malayalam is [ˈmoːɭilət̪e], although I think [ˈmoːɭile] would also work.
[t̪əɖiˈjəmma] - 'maternal grandmother', translated into Malayalam as [əmˈmuːmma]. I don't use this term because my maternal grandmother died when my mom was very young, so I don't know whether we use it in our community, but [əmˈmuːmma] seems to be a very well-known term for 'grandmother'. The host translates it as simply [əmˈmeːɖe ˈjəmma] 'mother's mother'.
[kiˈɲəmma] - 'younger maternal aunt', i.e. mother's younger sister, translated into Malayalam as [eˈɭejəmma], another term I'm unfamiliar with
[ˈawɖa] - same as [ˈoːɖə] except closer to standard Malayalam just like [ˈuːɖɯt̪e]
[ˈmeːkeʈɯ] - traditional Paniya clothing, although the old lady in the video sounds to me like she's pronouncing it more like [ˈməːkɯʈɯ]
[kuˈpaːjəm iˈɖɯn̪d̪ɯ] - 'wearing clothes/a shirt', mistranslated in the video as [ˈʋəst̪rəm d̪ʱəˈɾikʲuga] 'to wear clothes' rather than [ˈʋəst̪rəm d̪ʱəˈɾikʲun̪n̪u] 'wearing clothes'. Both translations are very formal and could have instead been replaced with just [kuˈpaːjəm iˈɖun̪n̪u]
[t̪əˈləpoja] - [t̪əˈləpoɻa], the name of a nearby village, with the [ɻ] > [j] change common among people at least in northern Kerala
[puːd̪əŋˈguːmbəɭəm] or [puːd̪əŋˈgaːj] - 'wintermelon', i.e. [kumˈbəɭɛŋʲa], which I immediately associate with [eɾiɕˈɕeːɾi] or (somewhat less immediately) [moˈɭuːʃəm]
[kuˈɖuma] - probably misidentified as a Paniya word meaning a type of hairstyle; [kuˈɖumi] is the lone tuft of hair known in some other Indian languages as shiksha that remains after a Brahmin's head is shaven
[kelˈpəɾipɯ] - 'banana chips' (see previous post under [uˈpeːɾi])
[ˈawt̪ɯ] - 'inside', i.e. [əˈgət̪ɯ]
[t͡ʃawkɯˈgɛʈɯ] - 'tied-up sack', i.e. [ˈt͡ʃaːkɯgɛʈɯ], not listed in the video but still different enough that I wouldn't have recognized it without the host immediately clarifying it
[ˈn̪iːŋgə jeŋˈgaː ˈpond͡ʒɯ]? - 'where are y'all going?', i.e. [ˈn̪iŋəɭ eŋoːˈʈaː ˈpoːwn̪n̪əd̪ɯ]? Not quite sure which language this is in since it's identified as Tamil but I suspect this may just be Paniya
[ˈn̪əmma ˈjiŋga ʋəˈɾe] - 'we're going here/this way', i.e. [ˈn̪əmməɭ iˈŋoːʈɯ poʋˈʋaː]. This does sound much more like Tamil, although it's kind of weird because this sounds like the inclusive pronoun rather than the exclusive one
[ajj ˈɛŋgɯ ˈpɔːnɛ]? - 'where are you going?' i.e. [n̪iː jeˈŋoːʈɯ ˈpoːwn̪n̪u] (I would be far more likely to say [poʋˈʋaː] rather than [ˈpoːwn̪n̪u], but I think that's mostly just me, and I think [ˈpoːwn̪n̪u] is the cognate here). This may be the local variety of Tamil since Wayanad borders both Tamil Nadu and Karnataka
[n̪aːm məˈɖəŋgi ˈpɔːnɛ] - 'I'm going back', i.e. [ɲaːn məˈɖəŋi ˈpoːwn̪n̪u]/[poʋˈʋaː]
[ˈn̪əmmɛ ˈjɛŋgə ˈpoːgɛ] - 'where are we going?', the form the guy with the host uses when recounting the conversation. It sounds like some kind of pidginized Tamil. In Malayalam, [ˈn̪əmməɭ eˈŋoːʈɯ poʋˈʋaː]?
[ˈn̪əmma ˈaŋgə ˈpoːgɛ] - 'we're going there/that way', i.e. [ˈn̪əmməɭ əˈŋoːʈɯ poʋˈʋaː]
[upaːd̪iˈɾaːkɯ] - 'at midnight', i.e. [paːd̪iˈɾaːt̪rikʲɯ]. Some Malayalees would probably see [paːd̪iˈɾaːjkʲɯ]. Not listed in the video
[ʋən̪ˈd̪aː] - 'he came'. Paniya appears to mark the subject on the verb like Tamil does, whereas in Malayalam, 'came' for all subjects would be [ˈʋən̪n̪u]. Also not listed
[ˈʋən̪d̪u] - 'having come', i.e. [ˈʋən̪n̪ɯ], also not listed and also roughly identical with the Tamil form
[kəˈɾeːnd͡ʒi] - 'having cried', i.e. [kəˈɾɛɲɯ]. This is probably specific to Paniya
[ˈpoːɖit͡ʃ oˈraːŋgʋa ˈkaːɳe] - 'is so scared it couldn't sleep', i.e. [ˈpeːɖit͡ʃ orəˈŋaːn pətˈtun̪n̪illa], listed though no one actually said it in the video
[ˈmɔʈɛn] - 'boy', i.e. [ˈaːɳguʈi] (compare [pɛˈʈəmma] in Puthussery?)
[mɔˈʈət̪i] - 'girl', i.e. [ˈpeɳguʈi]
[ˈt̪ɛmbət̪ɯ] - 'at the end/edge', i.e. [ətˈtət̪ɯ]
[ˈt̪uɭɭi ˈjuːɖɯn̪n̪ɯ] - transcribed for whatever reason as if it was pronounced as one word [t̪uɭˈɭuːɖɯn̪n̪ɯ] and translated as [t͡ʃaːɖiˈkʲoːɭuː] 'take a jump!' but sounds suspiciously like [ˈt̪uɭɭi jiʋiˈɖɯn̪n̪ɯ] 'jump from here' or [ˈt̪uɭɭi jəʋiˈɖɯn̪n̪ɯ] 'jump from there'
[t͡ʃəˈkɨru] - 'jackfruit seed(s)', i.e. [t͡ʃəˈkəkuɾu]
[jeːŋ kuˈt̪aː kaːɳəˈlaː] - 'I wasn't feeling well', transcribed for whatever reason as if to be pronounced [eːguˈd̪aː kaːɳəˈlaː] and translated as [eˈnikʲɯ suˈgəmilla]
[oˈraːʈi] - 'wife', i.e. [ˈbʱaːɾja] (note that in Malayalam, we use a Sanskrit loanword for this, whereas Paniya appears to use a Dravidian word different from Tamil /manaiʋi/)
[ˈuːmi] - translated by the speaker himself as [kəˈla], i.e. [kəˈləm] 'waterpot'. However, [ˈuːmi ˈboɭɭa] is translated in the show as [pət͡ʃəˈʋɛɭɭəm] 'pure water'
[ˈboɭɭa] - 'water', i.e. [ˈʋɛɭɭəm]
[ˈpuɭɭa] - 'kid/child', unlisted but translated as [kuˈʈi]; compare [piɭˈɭaːɾɯ] 'kids'
[ʋiɭeˈjaːɖa] - 'to play', unlisted but translated as [kəˈɭikʲuga]; almost identical to the Tamil equivalent
[ʋoːɭiˈgoːɭ] - 'volleyball', unlisted but translated as [ʋoːɭiˈboːɭ]
[məˈka] - 'children', 'sons', 'daughters', i.e. [məˈkəɭ]
[t̪ɛˈɾəɳɖɯ kəlˈjaːɳəm] - unlisted but described as a Paniya coming-of-age ceremony for a girl. The host makes a sensational claim that the guests keep dancing nonstop for three days without even sitting down or sleeping. No idea what [t̪ɛˈɾəɳɖɯ] means, but [kəlˈjaːɳəm] in Malayalam means 'wedding' and comes from the Sanskrit word for 'happiness'

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 2:36 pm
by Vijay
Before I move on to Episode 4 of Njanga Ninga, I want to include a note about traders' jargon, which I think is relevant for one of the terms in that episode, and about the Malayalam spoken by Dalits. p. 19-20 of the 1997 book ദളിത് ഭാഷ [d̪əˈɭid̪ɯ ˈbʱaːʃa] 'Dalit language' by Kaviyoor Murali include the following note:

"കച്ചവടക്കാർക്ക് അവരുടേതായ ചില കോഡുകളും ഉണ്ട്...ഇതെല്ലാം ഇന്നുമുണ്ട്."
[kət͡ʃəʋəɖəˈkaːrk əʋəɾɯɖeːˈd̪aːja t͡ʃɛˈla ˈkoːɖɯgəɭum ˈɔɳɖɯ]...[jid̪elˈlaːm in̪ˈn̪umɔɳɖɯ].
'Businessmen have some code words of their own...All of these are still there today.'

Footnote #1 of p. 20 lists the following code words:

ചാ [t͡ʃaː] - 'one', normally ഒന്ന് [ˈon̪n̪ɯ] in Malayalam. I think this was just translated with the numeral "1"
തങ്കാൻ [t̪əŋˈgaːn] - 'two', normally രണ്ട് [ˈɾəɳɖɯ]
വട്ടം [ʋəˈʈəm] - ചക്രം [ˈt͡ʃəkrəm], literally 'wheel' but here referring to a now-obsolete kind of coin. വട്ടം in Malayalam normally just means 'circle'
വെളള [ˈʋeɭɭa] - 'rupee', I think listed in the book as just "Rs." Normally രൂപാ [ɾuːˈbaː] in Malayalam. വെള്ളി [ˈʋeɭɭi] literally means 'silver'; rupee and രൂപാ also come from the Sanskrit word for 'silver'. വെളള more often means 'white', especially as an adjective in poetry and as a noun when referring to eggs (egg white)
ചാവെളള [ˈt͡ʃaːʋeɭɭa] - 'one rupee' (I think defined as just "Rs. 1" in the book), normally ഒരു രൂപാ [oˈɾu ɾuːˈbaː]
ചാവട്ടം [ˈt͡ʃaːʋəʈəm] - 'one chakram', i.e. ഒരു ചക്രം [oˈɾu ˈt͡ʃəkrəm]
തങ്കാൻവെളള [t̪əŋˈgaːnʋeɭɭa] - 'two rupees' ("Rs. 2"), i.e. രണ്ട് രൂപ [ˈɾəɳɖɯ ˈɾuːba]
തങ്കാൻ വട്ടം [t̪əŋˈgaːn ʋəˈʈəm] - 'two chakrams', i.e. രണ്ട് ചക്രം [ˈɾəɳɖɯ ˈt͡ʃəkrəm]
ചാത്തങ്കാൻ [t͡ʃaːt̪əŋˈgaːn] - 'half of a rupee', i.e. അര രൂപാ [əˈɾa ɾuːˈbaː]
കൊളച്ചി [kɔˈɭət͡ʃi] - 'three rupees' ("Rs. 3"), i.e. മൂന്ന് രൂപ [ˈmuːn̪n̪ɯ ˈɾuːba]
മുക്കൊളച്ചി [muˈkɔɭət͡ʃi] - 'three-fourths of a rupee' ("3/4 രൂപാ"), i.e. മുക്കാൽ രൂപാ [muˈkaːl ɾuːˈbaː]. Note that കാൽ
[kaːl] means 'quarter', and മുക്കാൽ [muˈkaːl] means 'three quarters', yet കൊളച്ചി means 'three rupees', and മുക്കൊളച്ചി means not *'nine rupees' but rather 'three quarters of a rupee'!
ത്വാവ് [ˈt̪ʋaːʋɯ] - 'four rupees' ("Rs. 4"), i.e. നാല്‌ രൂപ [ˈn̪aːlɯ ˈɾuːba]
പുലുപ്പുലു [puˈlupulu] - 'one hundred rupees' ("Rs. 100"), i.e. നൂറ് രൂപ [ˈn̪uːrɯ ˈɾuːba]
ഗജം [gəˈd͡ʒəm] - 'estimate', i.e. ഉദ്ദേശം [ud̪ˈd̪eːɕəm]. ഗജം is the Sanskrit (loan)word for 'elephant', and I was very confused until my dad explained this just now because I thought ഉദ്ദേശം meant 'intention'. However, he says he has heard ഗജം being used this way to mean 'estimate'. I asked him, "What does that have to do with elephants?" He said, "I dunno, maybe they used to use elephants to measure something!" which seems like enough of a plausible explanation for me
ഒയത്തുക [oˈjət̪uga] - 'to achieve a net profit', i.e. സൂത്രത്തിൽ കാര്യലാഭമുണ്ടാക്കുക [ˈsuːt̪rət̪il kaːɾjəˈlaːbʱəmɔɳɖaːkuga]
ചാകുക [ˈt͡ʃaːguga] - 'to settle for the customer's proposed price', i.e. പറഞ്ഞ വില സമ്മതിക്കുക [pəˈrɛɲa ʋɛˈla ˈsəmməd̪ikʲuga]. ചാകുക is a verb normally used to describe an animal (or, pejoratively, a person) dying

Dalits speaking Malayalam often use more Dravidianized forms, non-standard forms, and Tamil words than higher-caste/higher-class people. On p. 31, the book lists the following words in Dalit Malayalam:

ചെവരക്കാരൻ [t͡ʃɛʋəɾəˈkaːɾɛn] - 'barber', presumably from the Standard Malayalam equivalent [ʈʃuˈɾəgɛn], a loanword from Sanskrit. The book includes the Tamil equivalent written in Malayalam script as നാവികൻ. I presume this is நாவிகன் in Tamil script and probably pronounced something like ?[ˈn̪aːʋihə̃]. If നാവികൻ were a word in Malayalam, it would instead be pronounced [ˈn̪aːʋigɛn]
പച്ചി-പക്കി (പറവ) [pət͡ʃiˈpəki] ([pəˈrəʋa]) - 'bird'. The Standard Malayalam equivalent is പക്ഷി (പറവ) [pəˈʈʃi] ([pəˈrəʋa]). [pəˈʈʃi] is another Sanskrit word, but [pəˈrəʋa] is a native Dravidian word. Tamil uses பறவை /paraʋai/
തിമ്കം [t̪imɯˈgəm] - 'lion', Dravidianization of സിംഹം [ˈsimhəm] (compare Singh and Sinhalese/Sinhala)
കിട്ട്ണൻ [kɪˈʈɯɳɛn] - 'Krishna', Dravidianization of കൃഷ്ണൻ [ˈkrɯʃɳɛn]

On p. 23, two phrases are listed:

ചെറുമനേ [t͡ʃɛrɯmɛˈneː] - 'hey, kid!' translated as എടാ കുട്ടി! [eˈɖaː kuˈʈi]! but also literally as what I presume is its cognate, ചെറിയവനേ [t͡ʃɛrijəʋɛˈneː], literally 'oh small boy/male one!'
മണക്കാട് പോകായ്കിൽ നന്റ് [məɳəˈkaːɖɯ poːˈgaːjgil ˈn̪əndɯ] - 'It's best not to go to Manakkad' (മണക്കാട് [məɳəˈkaːɖɯ] literally means 'fragrant forest'). The Standard Malayalam equivalent is given as മണക്കാട് പോകാതിരിക്കുന്നതാണ് നല്ലത് [məɳəˈkaːɖɯ poːˈgaːd̪iɾikʲun̪n̪əd̪aːɳɯ ˈn̪əlləd̪ɯ], literally 'it is (the act of) not going to Manakkad that is good'. For നന്റ് [ˈn̪əndɯ] apparently meaning 'good', compare Tamil நன்றி [ˈn̪andri] 'thanks'

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:31 pm
by Vijay
Jeseri, also known by various names such as Jesri, Dweep Bhasha, or "Lakshadweep Malayalam," is the language variety spoken in most of Lakshadweep (with the exception of Dhivehi-speaking Minicoy Island). It is descended from Old Malayalam yet unintelligible to people in Kerala. This is just a list of notes I had written down (by hand) on Jeseri from a phrasebook about it in Malayalam. All of the phonetic transcriptions of the Jeseri words are approximations because the book itself does not use IPA or anything similar, only Malayalam script:

Jeseri has a general change of *p > [f], e.g. something like [ˈfət̪ɯ] (written as ഫത്ത്) for 'ten', cf. Standard Malayalam പത്ത് [ˈpət̪ɯ]. The book says this was inspired by Arabic. In Malayalam, its exact wording is: "പകാരത്തിനു ഫകാരം നിയമേന കാണാം. ഇത് അറബിയുടെ പ്രേരണമൂലമാണു്."
[pəˈgaːɾət̪inɯ fəˈgaːɾəm n̪ijəˈmeːna kaːˈɳaːm]. [id̪ əˈrəbijuɖe preːɾəɳəˈmuːləmaːɳɯ].
"F is regularly substituted for p. This is due to influence from Arabic."

They list ഫുത്തം (something like [ˈfut̪əm]) in Jeseri as meaning 'newness' (പുതുമ [puˈd̪uma] in Standard Malayalam) because of this sound change (not really sure what sound changes are involved in that word otherwise, though).

They have an example അയ് നാലിബാസ് ഫുത്തം ഫോലങ്ങല്ലീ? (something like [aj n̪aːliˈbaːsɯ ˈfut̪əm foːlaŋalˈliː]) listed as meaning something like 'don't you see the newness in these clothes?' (or maybe '...this cloth?'; in Malayalam ഈ തുണിയിൽ പുതുമ കാണുന്നില്ലേ? [jiː t̪ʊˈɳijɪl puˈd̪uma kaːɳun̪n̪ɪlˈleː]).

The book also says that Jeseri preserves some words from Old Malayalam that have now disappeared from mainland Malayalam, such as ഫുള്ദ് (something like [fuˈɭɯd̪ɯ]) for 'sun' (in modern Malayalam സൂര്യൻ [ˈsuːɾjɛn]) from Old Malayalam പൊഴുത് /poɻut̪/, presumably pronounced something like [poˈɻud̪ɯ].

On pages 10-11, they list the following as words that are shared with southern Malayalam (i.e. Malayalam as spoken in and around Thiruvananthapuram), but most of them are listed in my dictionary of Standard Malayalam:

ചില്വാനം [t͡ʃillɯˈʋaːnəm] is attested even in Standard Malayalam, and I don't think they define it in this book (the dictionary defines it as 'remainder, balance, odd sums, (colloq.) wife'. I guess they're implying that it means the same in Jeseri).
പടവു /paʈaʋu/ 'a type of big boat' ("ഒരു വലിയതരം തോണി" [oˈɾu ˈʋɛljəd̪ɛɾəm ˈt̪oːɳi]; this same word is listed in my dictionary as meaning a small boat rather than a big boat)
പാരാട്ടുക /paːɾaːʈʈuka/ 'to caress, fondle' ("ലാളിക്കുക" [ˈlaːɭikʲuga], but this is listed in my dictionary with this meaning, too)
മുനിയുക /munijuka/ 'to get angry' ("കോപിക്കുക" [ˈkoːbikʲuga]; I might have to check this again because my dictionary lists /munajuka/ with this meaning)
പാടകാരി /paːʈakaːɾi/ 'the act of going alone' ("ഒറ്റപ്പെട്ടുപോകൽ" [otəpɛʈɯˈboːgəl]; this word is not listed in my dictionary).
ഉടമ്പറ /uʈampara/ 'room with only one door' ("ഒറ്റവാതിൽ മാത്രമുള്ള മുറി" [otəˈʋaːd̪il ˈmaːt̪rəmuɭɭa muˈri]; also not listed)
കിടു /kiʈu/ 'matted palm leaves' ("മെടഞ്ഞ ഓല" [meˈɖɛɲa ˈoːla]; listed in my dictionary with this meaning though defined in Standard Malayalam as "ഓലച്ചെറ്റ" [ˈoːlət͡ʃeta])
പട്ടാച്ചി /paʈʈaːt͡ʃi/ 'the lower part of the ??? of a coconut tree' ("തെങ്ങിന്റെ കുലഞ്ഞിയുടെ താഴത്തെ ഭാഗം" [ˈt̪eŋinde kuˈləɲijuɖe ˈt̪aːɻət̪e ˈbʱaːgəm]; not sure what a കുലഞ്ഞി [kuˈləɲi] is. പട്ടാച്ചി ([pəˈʈaːt͡ʃi]?) is not listed in my dictionary)
ചൂലി /t͡ʃuːli/ 'pregnant woman' (listed in the book as "ചൂലി (ശൂലിന)" and defined as "ഗർഭിണി" [ˈgərbʱiɳi]; I'm guessing ശൂലിന is either Jeseri or Southern Malayalam and pronounced something like [ˈɕuːlɪna]. ചൂലി is listed with this meaning in my dictionary, too; perhaps they meant that ചൂലി is Southern Malayalam and ശൂലിന is the Jeseri form)
ഓശാരം /oːɕaːɾam/ 'mercy, free gift' (listed in the book as "ദയ [d̪eˈja], സൗജന്യം [ˈsawd͡ʒɛnjəm]" but in the dictionary as 'free gift, concession' or "സൗജന്യം [ˈsawd͡ʒɛnjəm], ദാനം [ˈd̪aːnəm]")
വക്കുക /ʋakkuka/ 'to walk around with a light(?) catching fish at night' ("രാത്രിയിൽ വെളിച്ചവുമായി നടന്നു മീൻ പിടിക്കുക" [ˈɾaːt̪rijil ʋeɭit͡ʃəʋuˈmaːj n̪əˈɖən̪n̪ɯ miːn biˈɖikʲɥa]; false friend with Standard Malayalam വക്കുക [ʋəˈkʊga] 'to roast in a fire, cause to dry by exposure')
കടിയാമത്തെ /kaʈijaːmat̪t̪e/ 'last' ("അവസാനത്തെ [əʋəˈsaːnət̪e] (കടശി [kəˈɖəɕi])"; presumably "കടശി" is etymologically related to this and/or more widely used in Southern Malayalam than in other varieties such as my own, where I have never heard it, although it is listed in the dictionary as well but കടിയാമത്തെ is not. Compare also கடைசி /kaʈajci/ ([kaˈɖasi]?) in Tamil)

On the next page (p. 11), they list the following loanwords from English, not shared with Standard Malayalam:

കാറ്റ് ([ˈkaːttɯ]?) from English heart; this is a false friend with Standard Malayalam, where കാറ്റ് [ˈkaːttɯ] is a native Dravidian word meaning 'wind'
ജങ്ക്‌ളി (something like /d͡ʒankɭi/) from jungle
ലാട്ടം /laːʈʈam/ < lantern
കബാട്ട് /kabaːʈʈ/ < cupboard
And even ബോട്ടുക്കിളി /boːʈʈukkiɭi/ < boat cleavance

Also listed here are what they call തത്ഭവങ്ങൾ i.e. tadbhavas:

അതിക്കുറുമ (something like [əˈd̪ikʊrʊma]), listed as meaning "അതിക്രമം (കുസൃതിത്തരം)." അതിക്രമം is pronounced [əd̪iˈkrəməm], means 'offense, outrage, injustice, trespass', and is presumably the word that Jeseri അതിക്കുറുമ comes from. I'm not entirely sure what കുസൃതിത്തരം [kʊˈsrɯd̪it̪ɛɾəm] means, but it's probably at least similar in meaning; കുസൃതി [kʊˈsrɯd̪i] by itself means 'mischief'. Shouldn't it be listed as "കുസൃതിത്തരം (അതിക്രമം)," like "അവസാനത്തെ (കടശി)" above, i.e. with the definition outside parentheses and the presumed cognate inside parentheses, as with "അവസാനത്തെ (കടശി)" above (see under /kaʈijaːmat̪t̪e/)?
ഇടിച്ച (something like [jɪˈɖɪt͡ʃa]) 'loud sound' ("ഉച്ചത്തിലുള്ള ശബ്ദം [uˈt͡ʃət̪iluɭɭa ˈɕəbd̪əm]") < ഇടിയൊച്ച [jɪˈɖijɔt͡ʃa] 'sound of thunder'
പാടകം (something like [ˈpaːɖəgəm]) 'anklet' ("കാൽച്ചിലമ്പ്‌ [ˈkaːlt͡ʃiləmbɯ]") < പാദകടകം [ˈpaːd̪əgəɖəgəm] (literally 'foot/leg bracelet')

Also listed on the same page, and again on p. 13, is this example of methathesis (തിരിൾ /t̪iɾiɭ/ < തളിരു് [t̪əˈɭɪɾɯ]) 'sprout, shoot, bud'. On page 12, the word കബറാക്കുക /kabaraːkkuka/ is listed as meaning 'to pay attention' (ശ്രദ്ധിക്കുക [ɕrəd̪ˈd̪ʱikʲʊga], more often pronounced more like [ɕrəd̪ˈd̪ikʲa]). Other examples of metathesis listed on p. 13 are:

ബദറെ /bad̪are/ < വെറുതെ [ʋɛrɯˈd̪e] 'ordinary, just, only, merely, no particular reason, in vain, uselessly, gratis, without payment'
കസൂറുക്ക /kasuːrukka/ < കർമ്മോസ [kərˈmoːsa] 'papaya'
ശീകരം /ɕiːkaɾam/ ([ˈɕiːgəɾəm]?) < ജീരകം [ˈd͡ʒiːɾəgəm] 'cumin'

കസൂറുക്ക /kasuːrukka/ is a curious example IMO. It's also translated into Standard Malayalam as പപ്പയ്ക്ക [pəˈpɛkʲa]. My dictionary does not have കർമ്മോസ [kərˈmoːsa] but does define പപ്പയ്ക്ക [pəˈpɛkʲa] as കർമ്മൂസ് [kərˈmuːs]. /kasuːrukka/ looks slightly more complicated than just metathesis to me, more like [kərˈmuːs] > [kəsˈmuːr] > [kəˈsuːr], with the -/kaː/ 'fruit (especially unripe), seed' suffix.

കെല്ലുക /kelluka/ in Jeseri is listed as meaning കെല്പുണ്ടാക്കുക [kɛlpɔɳˈɖaːkʊga] 'to strengthen' in Standard Malayalam.

Somewhere around p. 18, they start talking about cases. 'I' (i.e. the singular nominative case first person singular pronoun) in Jeseri is ന്നാം /nnaːm/ cf. Standard Malayalam ഞാൻ [ɲaːn]. I didn't write this down, but IIRC, 'my' in Jeseri is എന്നാ, so something like [ɛnˈnaː] as opposed to Standard Malayalam എന്റെ [ˈɛnde]. 'Your' is നിന്നാ, so I guess [n̪ɪnˈnaː], instead of നിന്റെ [ˈn̪ɪnde]. 'His' I believe is ഓന ([ˈoːna]?) instead of അവന്റെ [əˈʋɛnde], and 'her' (genitive case) I think is similarly ഓള [ˈoːɭa] instead of അവളുടെ [əˈʋəɭʊɖe] ~ [əˈʋəɭɖe]. 'What's your name?' is നിന്നാ ഫേർ എന്നൈന്റ്? i.e. something like [n̪ɪnˈnaː feːr ɛnˈnəjndɯ], listed with the meaning നിന്റെ പേർ എന്താണ് [n̪ɪnˈde peːɾ ɛn̪ˈd̪aːɳɯ] in Standard Malayalam.

On p. 20, they say that the locative case is expressed in Jeseri using the suffix -ന്റ് (I guess -/nt/? This resembles one of the forms for the genitive case suffix in Standard Malayalam) rather than the Standard Malayalam suffixes/morphemes -ഇൽ -/il/ and -കൽ /kal/. (In the original Malayalam: ആധാരിക. ഇതിന്റെ പ്രത്യയമായ 'ഇൽ' 'കൽ' എന്നിവ തീരെയില്ല. പ്രയോഗത്തിൽ ന്റ് എന്നൊരു രൂപം കാണാൻ കഴിയും). For example, നിങ്ങേന്റ് ആരേലും ബരോണേ! /niŋeːnt aːɾeːlum baɾoːɳeː/ means 'one of you should come!' (in Standard Malayalam നിങ്ങളിൽനിന്നു് ആരെങ്കിലും വരണേ! [n̪ɪˈŋəɭɪln̪ɪn̪n̪ ˈaːɾɛŋgɪlʊm ʋɛɾəˈɳeː]).

On p. 21, ബമ്പത്തം /bampat̪t̪am/ is listed as meaning 'intelligence' (മിടുക്ക് [mɪˈɖʊkɯ]), ഓൻ ആണ്ടേം ബബം /oːn aːɳʈeːm babam/ as meaning 'he is a smart man' (അവനാണു് സമർത്ഥൻ [əʋɛˈnaːɳɯ səˈmərt̪ʰɛn]), and ഓൻ ഹറുക്കത്തുകാരനാണ്ടേം /oːn harukkat̪t̪ukaːɾanaːɳʈeːm/ as meaning 'he is smart' (അവൻ മിടുക്കനാണു് [əˈʋɛn mɪɖʊˈkɛnaːɳɯ]). I'm guessing ഹറുക്കത്ത് (I guess pronounced something like [həˈrʊkət̪ɯ]) comes from Arabic حركة ḥaraka, but in Jeseri, it means 'intelligence' (like ബമ്പത്തം, I suppose).

On p. 23, they have the following sentence, which I couldn't help laughing upon reading (unfortunately, since I was on a quiet floor in the library!): അങ്ങ ഓട ഓൻലച്ച് നാന 'he had stayed at our house', probably pronounced something like [əˈŋa ˈoːɖa oːn lət͡ʃɯˈnaːna] (translated into Standard Malayalam as ഞങ്ങളുടെ വീട്ടിൽ അവൻ ഇരുന്നിട്ടുണ്ടായിരുന്നു [ɲəˈŋəɭʊɖe ˈʋiːʈɪl əˈʋɛn ɪɾʊn̪n̪ɪʈɔɳˈɖaːjɾʊn̪n̪u]).

Finally, on p. 25, they list the following words for 'crab' in Jeseri (in Standard Malayalam ഞണ്ട് [ˈɲəɳɖɯ]):

അലഗം /alagam/
അലോം /aloːm/
അബലം /abalam/
അലഗൻ /alagan/

as well as the word അലമ്പൽ /alampal/, which they define as 'problem, noise' (കുഴപ്പം, ബഹളം, പ്രശ്നം [kɔˈɻəpəm], [bɛˈɦɛɭəm], [prɛɕˈnəm]).

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:05 pm
by Vijay
Omniglot has a blog where Simon Ager (who runs Omniglot) posts an audio clip in a different language every week. I was going through a bunch of these in the blog archives and came across one in a Dravidian language called Badaga. Badaga is a Dravidian language spoken in the Nilgiri Hills in northwestern Tamil Nadu, near the border with Kerala and Karnataka. It's closely related to Kannada. Apparently, the Badaga people migrated to the Nilgiri Hills from Karnataka relatively recently, in the 16th century. However, an Indo-Aryan phonologist I've known online probably since I was a teenager confused it for Malayalam, which surprised me because it really didn't sound like Malayalam to me and I could clearly identify a Kannada word in it.

I keep getting Badaga confused with another language that's also spoken in the Nilgiri Hills, as well as in nearby parts of Tamil Nadu, Kerala, and Karnataka, called Betta Kurumba. Apparently, Betta Kurumba is more closely related to Tamil, and its speakers, the Betta Kurumba people, are essentially indigenous to the Nilgiri Hills (though I doubt they have the longest history there out of the local popuulation). I can't really say much about Badaga, but there are two short but annotated songs in it here. By contrast, anyone who has access to the MEGA folder also has access to an entire dissertation on Betta Kurumba.

Some of the words listed on p. 235 of this dissertation are very similar to both Malayalam and Tamil; in particular, the word [ˈkaːpi] 'coffee' is (not so surprisingly) identical in all three of Malayalam, Tamil, and Betta Kurumba. The English loanwords listed as fulla 'fully' and flaskə 'flask' sound more or less like Tamil, though in Tamil at least, the L's would be retroflex. They would also be retroflex in Malayalam, except that -[a] is not a valid suffix for this word in Malayalam. [ˈkaːki] 'crow' is also very similar to its Malayalam equivalent [ˈkaːka]; in Tamil, I suppose this is more like [ˈkaːkej]. [ˈpjaːti] 'type of cockroach' is also pretty close to our [ˈpaːta].

Some other words bear less obvious similarities. [pəpˈpiʃiʃo] for 'it ripened' doesn't look anything like a word in either Malayalam and Tamil but is probably related in some way to the Malayalam word [pəˈɻut̪u] 'ripened'. It's not clear to me whether [ˈard̪ə] 'half' might be a native word related to the Malayalam equivalent [əˈɾa] or whether it's borrowed from Kannada or something, which in turn presumably borrowed the Sanskrit equivalent [ˈərd̪ʱa]. [paːˈmaːʃi] is translated as 'moss', but I wonder whether it might also mean 'weed' and/or be related to the Malayalam word [ˈpaːjəl] 'weed(s)'. [ˈkurbən] sounds close enough to the term Kurumba.

[ˈerd͡ʒənu] 'he threw and(?)' sounds a bit like the Malayalam [eˈriɲiʈɯ] 'having thrown', and [ˈergənu] 'he slept and(?)' sounds a bit like Malayalam [oˈrəŋijiʈɯ] 'having slept'. [ˈkət̪t̪i] 'donkey' bears an even less obvious resemblance to the Malayalam equivalent [kəˈɻud̪a] (and happens to sound more like the Malayalam word for 'knife'). Potti 'I carried' reminds me of the word [ˈpoki] 'carried on the head' in Malayalam. [ˈbəʈʈi] 'path' sounds a little bit like its Malayalam equivalent [ʋəˈɻi]. [ˈkoʃʃi] is translated as 'heron' but reminds me more of the Malayalam word for 'chicken', [ˈkoːɻi]. [ˈpəʈʈə] 'hen' vaguely resembles the Malayalam equivalent [peˈɖa] or, more accurately, [peɖəˈkoːɻi].

[ˈd̪iːɾi] 'distance' is surely a loanword related to the Malayalam equivalent [ˈd̪uːɾəm]; both are presumably loanwords that ultimately go back to Proto-Indo-European. [ˈbaːt̪i] 'duck' may be a loanword from Kannada, although Malayalam does have a similar term as well, and this is a wanderwort anyway (though apparently ultimately of Indo-European origin); the usual term for 'duck' in Malayalam is [t̪aːˈraːʋɯ]. [ˈbəkkiʃo] 'she bent something' sounds a little bit like the Sanskrit loanword [ˈʋəkra] 'crooked' in Malayalam. I'm guessing [gəˈlaːʈi] 'fight' is related to Malayalam [kəˈlaːbəm] 'quarrel'. I'm having trouble telling what exactly the origin of abbi 'mother' and [ˈkəd̪d̪i] 'field' might be; [ˈkəd̪d̪i] might involve deretroflexion. [ˈpəggi] 'fight'(!) barely sounds like the Malayalam term [ˈpajtɯ] (as in Kalaripayattu). [ˈəd̚d͡ʒi] 'grandmother' is clearly from Kannada. I'm not sure what to make of [ˈt̪iːɾi] 'cloth' or [ˈbəʈʈə] 'mountain'. In Malayalam, we would say [t̪uˈɳi] and [məˈla] respectively.

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:41 pm
by Vijay
Apparently, some people in the part of Kerala my parents are from also use these expressions:
Vijay wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:56 am[ˈmoːn̪d̪i] - 'evening'
[ˈmiːrɯ] - The video claims that this word means 'ant(s)'. We say [uˈrumbɯ] or [ʊˈrʊmbɯ]. However, I think my dad said that (he thinks) [ˈmiːrɯ] means a specific kind of ant that we call something else (I don't remember for sure which kind, though; I'm sure he mentioned [ˈt͡ʃoːnɛn] but not whether he said that was the same thing or he said something like "not that one, the other one!" I think "the other one" might be called [iˈrumbɯ] and that the local guy teaching him the word might have been using to translate it into more standard Malayalam only for the host to "correct" him with the generic term [uˈrumbɯ]). IIRC, [ˈt͡ʃoːnɛn] is a big but harmless black ant, and [iˈrumbɯ] is a smaller but much more poisonous red ant but not a fire ant, often seen fighting a [ˈt͡ʃoːnɛn], and my dad used to tell his (younger) brother stories about these two kinds of ants fighting.
[ˈt͡ʃən̪d̪ɯ] or [ˈsən̪d̪ɯ] - 'road'. We say [ʋəˈɻi] like in the video.
[jiˈɖɯliʋəɻi] - 'side street'. We say [jiˈɖəʋəɻi] or [jɛˈɖəʋəɻi] like in the video.
[ˈʋeːlit̪əri] or [ˈʋeːlt̪əri] - 'wire fence' (if I understood correctly). We don't really have a word for this, hence the long-winded gloss in the video.
And our word for this:
Vijay wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:26 pm[kojˈjaːkaːɾɛn] - 'guy who climbs the coconut tree and collects coconuts'. Doesn't have a direct equivalent in any other variety of Malayalam that I know of
is apparently [pəd̪iˈjaːn]. We also apparently have this:
[t̪iˈɾimbuga] - 'to do laundry'.
Now, at last, for the fourth episode of Njanga Ninga, set in none other than the state capital, Thiruvananthapuram! Many of the phrases in this episode are definitely not unique to Thiruvananthapuram.

[əɳˈɳaːt͡ʃi] - 'sir'; not listed, but comes up in the background rap towards the beginning. A common term in southern Kerala that doesn't really have an equivalent that I know of elsewhere in Kerala
[pəˈɭeja kaˈɖa] - 'old store'; this is identical to how we (including the host) would say it except that [ɻ] here is replaced by [ɭ] just like lots of native speakers do in Indian Tamil
[t͡ʃəˈʈeːm ɕiːˈleːm] - 'shirt and [ˈmuɳɖɯ]'; I would say this myself, but the video translates it to [ˈʃərʈum ˈmuɳɖum]. Is it translating this into Malayalam or into English? :P I've always assumed [t͡ʃəˈʈa] is merely an early Dravidianization of English shirt anyway
[ˈjin̪d̪a] - 'this (before a noun phrase)', from Tamil, used repeatedly by people in Thiruvananthapuram in this video but not listed; in Malayalam, normally, we say [jiː]
[ˈʋən̪d̪ɯ] - 'having come', i.e. [ˈʋən̪n̪ɯ]; identical to Tamil AFAICT
[ˈan̪d̪a] - 'that (before a noun phrase)', again from Tamil; we say [aː]
[ˈt̪oːja] - [ˈd̪oːɕa]. Compare Sri Lankan Tamil tōcai vs. Indian Tamil dōcai
[ˈʈəkəne] - 'immediately, suddenly', i.e. [peˈʈen̪n̪ɯ]
[ˈjen̪d̪əɾɯ] - 'what', i.e. [ˈjen̪d̪ɯ]. It isn't really listed in the video except in the first speech bubble in the intro but frequently pops up in the background music from 3:47. Also frequently used by Malayalees in Kanyakumari, which is now just across the state border in Tamil Nadu
[jenˈnət̪ɯ ˈʋeːɳəm]? - 'What is it that you want?' i.e. [jen̪ˈd̪aːɳɯ ˈʋeːɳɖəd̪ɯ]? ('What do you want?' for me, and I guess in Standard Malayalam, would be [ˈjen̪d̪ɯ ˈʋeːɳəm]?)
[ˈəpi] - 'son'. There is an old inter-dialect pun where some people from northern Kerala visit a house in southern Kerala. The lady of the house offers them [ˈboːnd͡ʒi] 'limeade' (see below). Unfamiliar with this term, they decide to turn the offer down. The lady protests to their shock, "[ajˈjoː], [ˈjende ˈjəpi jeɭəkijəˈd̪aː]!" meaning 'oh no! My son mixed (i.e. made) it!'. However, in northern Kerala, [ˈəpi] means '[spoiler]shit[/spoiler]', so "[ajˈjoː], [ˈjende ˈjəpi kələkijəˈd̪aː]!" sounds more like (warning: really gross!) 'oh no! [spoiler]It's my diarrhea![/spoiler]'. This is why the host acts like he's so offended when the local guy uses this word. In the episode, it's somewhat misleadingly translated as [ˈkuʈi] 'child'
[ˈt͡ʃuːmbuga] - 'to nibble', or in Standard Malayalam, [n̪oˈɳejuga]
[ˈboːnd͡ʒi ˈʋeɭɭəm] - 'limeade'. [ˈʋeɭɭəm] simply means 'water' but can be used to refer to probably any liquid other than (I guess) milk, even with words that already refer to a liquid of some sort
[t̪əˈrikuɻi] - apparently a kind of loom (see 9:51). [t̪əˈri] apparently means 'loom'. Not necessarily a non-standard term and not listed
[ˈt̪aːɾɯ] - Standard Malayalam term for 'ball of thread' but also 'flower', also not listed
[əˈɾəɖɯ] - 'spinning wheel', i.e. [ˈt͡ʃərka] (the kind Gandhi famously used)
[puˈɖɯd̪əla] or [ˈpuːʈɯn̪d̪əla] - apparently a kind of spindle
[kəˈʋəɳi] - cloth normally worn at the waist but worn over the shoulders instead, i.e. [ˈmeːlmuɳɖɯ] or [ɾəɳˈɖaːm ˈmuɳɖɯ], probably a Standard Malayalam term with roughly this meaning
[t̪etˈtaːli] - not listed, apparently normally means 'catapult' but can mean 'slingshot' in Thiruvananthapuram?
[ˈd̪aːʋəɳi] - 'scarf', Standard Malayalam term that isn't listed in the video
[ˈjɛkɯ] - 'to/for me', i.e. [jeˈnikɯ]
[t̪inˈnɤːkɯ] - 'for eating', i.e. [t̪inˈnun̪n̪əd̪inɯ]
[jennəˈt̪eːjŋgilum] - 'anything', i.e. [jen̪ˈd̪eŋgilum]
[uɳˈɖaː] - 'is/are there?' i.e. [uɳˈɖoː] (or e.g. [oɳˈɖoː]). This is just straight-up Tamil
[əˈʋəniʈɯ] - 'to him', i.e. [əʋɛˈnoːɖɯ], probably from Tamil /aʋankiʈʈa/, pronounced something like [ˈəʋəŋgiʈə]
[t͡ʃenniˈjaː] - 'did (you) ask?' i.e. [t͡ʃoːd̪iːt͡ʃoː]
[t̪oˈrəpa] - 'broom', i.e. [ˈt͡ʃuːl] or [ˈt͡ʃuːlɯ]
[koːɾəmˈbaːja] - 'grass mat', i.e. [pʊlˈpaːja]
[ˈt͡ʃaːkoɭət͡ʃi] - 125 rupees, i.e. [ˈn̪uːtijiɾɯʋət̪ənd͡ʒɯ ˈɾuːba]; see the post on traders' jargon. As the businessmen in the video indicate, this is not Thiruvananthapuram-specific
[t̪oːt̪əˈŋaːw] - 250 rupees, i.e. [jiɾuˈn̪uːtijəmbəd̪ɯ ˈɾuːba]
[ˈt͡ʃaːʋu] - 1, i.e. [ˈon̪n̪ɯ]
[ˈt̪oːʋu] - 2, i.e. [ˈɾəɳɖɯ]
[t̪iˈluʋɯ] - 3, i.e. [ˈmuːn̪n̪ɯ]
[ˈpaːt̪ɯ] - 4, i.e. [ˈn̪aːlɯ]
[t̪əˈʈɛlɯ] - 5, i.e. [ˈənd͡ʒɯ]
[t̪əˈɖəʋɛlɯ] - 6, i.e. [ˈaːrɯ]
[n̪ɔˈɭɛkʲɛlɯ] - 7, i.e. [ˈjeːɻɯ]
[ʋəˈlu] - 8, i.e. [ˈjeʈɯ]
[ˈt̪aːja] - 9, i.e. [ˈombəd̪ɯ]
[puˈlu] - 10, i.e. [ˈpət̪ɯ]. These numerals sound weirdly similar to Austronesian languages!
[ˈpoːjeŋgi poː] - 'go if you have to!' i.e. [ˈpoːɳeŋgil pʷɨjˈkʲoː] or [ˈpoːɳeŋgil poː]. [ˈpoːjeŋgi poː] sounds to me like it literally means 'go if you went!' :P
[jeŋˈgoːra] - 'Where are you going?' translated as [jeŋoːˈʈaː] 'where to?' but sounds more like just the Tamil expression [ˈeŋgɯ ˈpoːre] (or something similar) spoken quickly
[kəɾuˈʋaːɖɯ] - 'dried fish' i.e. [oɳəkəˈmiːn]. The fishwife in the video jokes with the host that there is no [oɳəkəˈmiːn], only [kəɾuˈʋaːɖɯ]; I'm guessing this line was scripted
[ˈpiːjəɳikʲa] - translated as [ˈmət̪ɛn] 'melon' but perhaps more accurately [məˈt̪ɛŋʲa] 'pumpkin'
[ˈjeːt̪ɛŋʲa] - 'plantains'. I'm not sure only people in Thiruvananthapuram say this, but I would say [ˈjeːt̪ɛkʲa]
[ˈpuːɭa] - 'cassava/tapioca', i.e. [ˈkəpa] or [məɾəˈt͡ʃiːni]. I'm not sure why this is listed, since if I understood the video correctly, this is the term used in Kozhikode, in northern Kerala, and emphatically not in southern Kerala. Maybe they just wanted to warn northern Malayalees against using this term there :P
[ˈpəɭɭɯ] - 'insult, cursing'. This is how we would say it, too. It's translated as [t̪eˈri]

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:35 pm
by Vijay
On p. 730 of The World's Major Languages, Sanford B. Steever writes, "Tamil dialects show diglossic
variation in which a 'high' formal variety (centamiẓ) contrasts with a 'low' informal variety (koṭuntamiẓ). The difference between these two corresponds only roughly to the difference between written and spoken Tamil. The high variety is used in most writing, radio and television broadcasts, political oratory and public lectures. While the low variety is used in virtually all face-to-face communication, it also appears in the cinema, some political oratory and some modern fiction. In Akilan's novel ciNēkiti 'The Girl-Friend' (1951) both dialogue and narration are in the high variety; in Janaikiraman's ammā vantāḷ 'Here Comes Mother' (1966) the former is in low, the latter in high Tamil; and in Jeyakantan's cila nēraṅkaḷil cila maNitarkaḷ 'Certain Men at Certain Moments' (1970) both are in low Tamil."

The koṭuntamiẓ Steever speaks of is not merely one variety of Tamil but rather all of the spoken varieties, whereas as far as I'm aware at least, there is only one variety of centamiẓ. I have had a native speaker of Tamil tell me that these spoken varieties of Tamil are not mutually intelligible, IIRC Steever claims they form a dialect continuum. I have also heard that Telugu also has a lot of diglossic variation, apparently to the point that this is difficult even for many (most??) native speakers to navigate, whereas Steever claims that even illiterate Tamils have to know how to navigate their own diglossic variation. Kannada may well have such variation as well and is in any case surrounded by a wide variety of languages. All three of these languages also have a lot of dialect variation, which presumably interacts with diglossia. While Malayalam also has diglossia, it doesn't seem to have it to such a high degree.

Steever continues, "In high Tamil the animate and inanimate locative case markers are -iṭam and -il, respectively; but in low Tamil they are -kiṭṭa and -le. The polite imperative of vara 'come' is vāruṅkaḷ in high Tamil, but vāṅka or vāṅkō in low. The word for 'much' or 'very' is mika in high Tamil, but rompa in low (both come from the infinitives of verbs that mean 'exceed' or 'fill'). Palatalisation of -nt- and -tt- following i, ī or ai is common in low Tamil, but not in high, e. g. low aṭiccu 'beating' corresponds to high aṭittu 'id.'." In some ways, Malayalam is closer to centamiẓ than most koṭuntamiẓ varieties. We use -il for the locative (we don't have an animacy distinction in locative case) and have a word [ˈmikʲa] meaning 'most'. However, a phrase such as 'the room in the house' would be [ˈʋiːʈile muˈri], where [ˈʋiːʈil] means 'in the house'; the -[e] suffix is required before another noun in such a phrase. Rompa apparently comes from the verb 'to grow', cognate to the Malayalam equivalent of this verb, [ʋəˈɭɛɾuga] (compare [ʋəɭɛɾumˈboːɭ] 'when [unspecified subject] grow(s)', colloquially [ʋəˈɭɛɾumbəm]). We would also say [əˈɖit͡ʃu] but to mean 'beat, hit' in past tense.

Steever also writes (just before all this on the same page), "The social dialects of Tamil particularly accentuate the distinction between brahmin and non-brahmin castes. Among brahmins the word for 'house' is ām, among non-brahmins vīṭu; among brahmins the polite imperative of vara 'come' is vāṅkō, among non-brahmins vāṅka. For 'drinking water' Vaisnavite brahmins say tīrttam, Saivite brahmins jalam and non-brahmins taṇṇīr." Vaishnavite Brahmins are devotees of Vishnu, whereas Shaivite Brahmins are devotees of Shiva, hence their names. From what I understand, there was no religion called "Hinduism" before the British chose to lump almost all the religions of the subcontinent under this label, and Vaishnavites/Vaishnavas discriminated against and persecuted Shaivites/Shaivas in much the same way as anyone else persecuted others in the name of religion.

In Malayalam, we have the word [ˈʋiːɖɯ] for 'house', and our prestigious Sanskrit loanword for 'house' is [grɯˈhəm]; compare e.g. [gʱəɾ] in Hindi. However, we also have both the Sanskrit loanwords [ˈt̪iːrt̪ʰəm] and [d͡ʒɛˈləm] for 'water' as well as [ˈn̪iːɾɯ] for most kinds of liquid, yet our normal word for 'water' is [ˈʋeɭɭəm], meaning 'flood' in Tamil. Our words for 'flood' in Malayalam are [ʋeɭɭəˈpokəm], literally 'rising of water', and [peɾuˈʋeɭɭəm], literally 'big water'. Taṇṇīr is etymologically 'cold water' and doesn't exist as a term with this meaning in Malayalam, though there is the word [t̪əɳˈɳiːmət̪ɛn] 'watermelon', a compound word (of 'water' + 'melon') just like in English.

Varieties of Tamil spoken in Sri Lanka also are known to preserve features lost in Indian Tamil; this may help explain why people often perceive Sri Lankan Tamil as being more similar or closer to Malayalam than Indian Tamil is. According to a(n online) Sri Lankan Tamil friend of mine, Sri Lankans say vāṅkō for '(please) come!'. Steever writes on p. 732, "Initial /c/ is often pronounced as s in the speech of many educated speakers." This strikes me as an understatement; to me, it seems as if even uneducated speakers of Tamil usually do this. However, in Sri Lanka, this happens less often than it seems to in India. He then writes, "Nasalation converts a sequence of vowel and word-final nasal into a nasalized vowel, e.g. /maram/ 'tree' becomes [marã] [...]"; this apparently does not happen in Sri Lanka, either.

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:39 pm
by Vijay
The fifth episode of Njanga Ninga takes place in Manjeshwaram, on the exact opposite end of Kerala (the northernmost part of Kerala, in Kasaragod district, near the border with Karnataka) from the previous episode. The informant in this episode claims that what they speak here is Beary Bashe.

[ˈn̪əkɯ] - 'to/for me', i.e. [jeˈnikʲɯ]. [ˈn̪əkɯ] to most Malayalam-speakers would mean 'lick!'
[ˈn̪ikɯ] - 'to/for you', i.e. [n̪iˈnəkɯ]. In standard Malayalam, this sounds more like 'wait!'
[ˈuːɖɯt̪e] - see episode 3
[ˈmaːrgəm] - 'road', as explained using the English word in the video. This is not a dialect-specific term at all but rather a Sanskrit loanword that has been used in literary Malayalam for hundreds of years and with cognates in plenty of Indian languages, though not usually used in casual conversation in Malayalam where we would instead say [ʋəˈɻi] (or, these days, use the English word like the host in this video). Perhaps here, they just use it more casually/frequently
[kiˈd̪iɲiʈɯ] - seems to mean 'having come down', which would make sense since [ˈkiːɻe] means 'down', but the translation on the show is [eˈrəŋijiʈɯ], which makes it seem like it means 'having come out'
[əˈgər] - 'wall', i.e. [t͡ʃuˈməɾɯ] (as they say in the video and have written in parentheses), or perhaps ?[t͡ʃoˈməɾɯ], or [məˈd̪il]
[ˈsiːd̪e] - 'straight', i.e. [ˈn̪eːɾe]. Compare Hindi/Urdu [ˈsid̪ʱa] (plural [ˈsid̪ʱe]; I think this form is also used as an adverb)
[ˈt͡ʃəŋgəm] - 'big bridge'; the informant in the video explains that it's the kind of bridge a bus crosses
[ˈkund͡ʒi] - 'shoulder', i.e. [t̪oːɭ]. The host makes a claim I don't quite understand that in Malabar (northern Kerala), particularly Kozhikode, this same word means the kind of money that you might give to kids (as an allowance? Or to buy something?). The speech bubble suggests that it can also mean 'back' i.e. [muˈd̪ugɯ]. For 'back' or 'backside', we also say [poˈrəʋɛɕəm]
[məˈd̪u] - 'axe', i.e. [məˈɻu]
[d̪aːrˈʋaːj] - 'TV serial', perhaps from the Shuddh Hindi neologism, which is something like [d̪ʱaɾaˈʋaɦɪk]
[t̪uˈʋaːɭɯ] - 'handkerchief', i.e. [t̪uˈʋaːla] for me or [t̪uːˈʋaːla] for some other speakers, a Portuguese loanword from toalha 'towel'
[muɳˈɖaːsɯ] - 'turban (made from a piece of cloth)', translated as [t̪əˈleːkeʈɯ], which literally just means 'something tied on (around) the head'
[ˈt̪əʈəm] - the same cloth but untied and carried over the shoulder
[jeˈlaːsərəm] - 'headscarf/hijab', i.e. [ˈt̪əʈəm] in other varieties of Malayalam (I'm not familiar with either term)
[ˈjiːʈɯ] - 'fertilizer', i.e. [ʋəˈɭəm]. The fact that [ʋəˈɭəm] is used as the translation here really makes me wonder why it was treated as a new word in episode 1! [ˈjiːʈɯ] can apparently refer to a kind of tree or plant also used to make fertilizer, which the host claims people in his area call [ˈsiːməkon̪n̪ɯ]. No idea what kind of plant this is
[məˈd̪a] - 'rain', i.e. [məˈɻa], with the same sound change again
[beɳˈɳuːrɯ] - 'ash', i.e. [ˈt͡ʃaːɾəm], though for whatever reason translated by the host as [ʋeɳˈɳiːrɯ], which is perhaps a term known elsewhere in (northern?) Kerala
[d͡ʒeːˈbaːləm] - 'temple', i.e. [d̪eːˈʋaːlejəm], though not listed, so I'm not sure whether I transcribed this correctly
[ˈd͡ʒaːt̪ra] - translated as [ˈulsəʋəm] 'festival' although similar terms in other Indian languages generally mean 'pilgrimage'. In Malayalam, [ˈjaːt̪ra] simply means (any) 'travel, trip, voyage' whereas a pilgrimage is called [t̪iːrˈt̪ʰaːɖɛnəm]
[pɐj] - 'cow', i.e. [pəˈɕu]. This is the same term used in Tamil
[pəˈd̪upɛn] ([pəˈd̪upɛ̃]?) - apparently, this is the Tulu word for 'spinach', i.e. what in Malayalam, we call [ˈt͡ʃiːɾa]. The informant appears to instead say [ˈt͡ʃiːɾəm] (in Beary Bashe?), but the video glosses over this
[ələˈsaːɳɖa] - apparently Tulu for 'beans (or some variety thereof)', i.e. [ˈpajərɯ]
[ˈbeɭrika] - apparently Beary Bashe for 'cucumber', i.e. [ˈʋeɭɭɛɾikʲa]
[ˈt̪awt̪ɛn] ([ˈt̪awt̪ɛ̃]?) - apparently Tulu for 'cucumber' but very much glossed over and not written in this video
[puˈd̪u] - 'worm' i.e. [puˈɻu], obviously nothing surprising here!
[poˈɲaːrɯ] - supposedly a very old (and presumably native Dravidian) term for 'nostalgia' used in Beary Bashe(?) or at least in Kasaragod whereas Malayalam (spoken elsewhere, or at least Standard Malayalam) only has the neologisms(?) [grɯˈhaːd̪uɾət̪ʋəm] (literally 'distancing from home'), [grɯhəʋiˈjoːgəʋjəd̪ʱa] ('grief from abandoning home'), and [ʋiʈɯˈn̪oːʋɯ] ('pain of abandonment') for it. The first two are Sanskrit-derived, and the last uses native words
[ʋəˈnəŋgəɾejɛl] - apparently another word specifically used in Kasaragod with a similar meaning; literal meaning sounds a bit like 'forest crying'
[ˈd̪uːɭɯ] - 'dust', i.e. [poˈɖi]
[ˈbeːkəm pəreˈjaːm] - 'will explain the situation/matter', i.e. [ˈkaːɾjəm pəreˈjaːm]
[ˈpullinde ˈmuʈa] - apparently 'haystack', translated as [pulˈkuːna] literally 'grass hunchback'; literally means 'egg of grass'
[keˈd̪a] - 'cattleshed', translated as [t̪oˈɻut̪ɯ]. We also say [jeˈɾut̪il]
[ˈd͡ʒaːga] - 'place', i.e. [st̪ʰəˈləm]. Both of these are probably Indo-European loanwords. [st̪ʰəˈləm] is a loanword from Sanskrit. For [ˈd͡ʒaːga], compare the Hindi/Urdu equivalent [d͡ʒəˈga] from Persian
[uːnˈd͡ʒaːɭɯ] - 'swing', i.e. [uːˈɲaːl]; compare Tamil ūñcal, which shows that the form in the local variety in Kasaragod is more conservative as it doesn't share the *nd͡ʒ > [ɲ] sound change Malayalam has
[bɯˈɭi koˈɖɯkəɳɖa] - 'shouldn't cry/don't cry', i.e. [kəˈɾejəɳɖa]. In Malayalam, [ʋiˈɭi] means 'call', and [koˈɖɯkəɳɖa] means 'shouldn't give (to a third person)' or 'don't give (something to a third person)!'
[kuˈd̪i] - 'pit, ditch', i.e. [kuˈɻi]. This is again the same sound change that we've been treated to examples of throughout the video. The Malayalam word is also part of my family name (not my last name!), [t͡ʃeˈɭikuɻijil], literally 'in the mud pit' :P

Re: Dravidian Language Varieties

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:14 pm
by Vijay
Vijay wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:35 pmAccording to a(n online) Sri Lankan Tamil friend of mine, Sri Lankans say vāṅkō for '(please) come!'.
Apparently, I remembered this wrong, and they actually say ruṅkō. This is halfway between Centhamil (or centamiẓ, as Steever Romanizes it) and the form Steever claims Indian Tamil Brahmins use.

The sixth episode of Njanga Ninga takes place in a place called Panikkotty near Vadakara in Kozhikode district in northern Kerala, about 20 km west of Perambra, featured in the second episode.

[kɔˈjəkɛɾəɖɯ] - 'tube well', i.e. [kɔˈɻəlkɛɳərɯ]
[jɛn̪ˈd̪eːnu] - 'Why are you here?' i.e. [jɛn̪d̪ɪˈnaː ˈʋən̪n̪əd̪ɯ]?
[ˈt͡ʃeːd̪i] - 'threshold', i.e. [ˈt̪iɳɳa]
[ˈjiːt͡ʃilɯmmɯlɯ] - 'on the step'. They translate this as simply step-[il], but we could also say [pəˈɖijil]
[koːˈnaːj] - 'porch', translated as [koːˈlaːja], a word I myself did not know. We also have the Portuguese loanword [ʋeˈɾaːn̪d̪a], which is also more or less the usual word in Indian English: verandah
[oːr] - probably just a contraction of [əˈʋər] 'they', commonly used in multiple nonstandard varieties of Malayalam
[oːr əˈŋoːʈe ˈpojka] - 'they went next door' or [əˈʋər əˈporət̪e ˈʋiːʈil poːj]. [əˈŋoːʈe] just sounds like '(towards) there'; I would say [əˈŋoːʈɯ]
[əŋəˈʈeːlɯ] - 'next door', i.e. [aˈjəlpəkət̪ɯ]
[jɛɖəʋɛləˈkaːr] - 'neighbors', translated as [ajəlpəkəˈkaːr]. I would probably say just [ajəlˈkaːr]
[koːˈnaːləgəm] - translated in the episode itself in English as 'dining hall' and in Malayalam as [n̪əˈɖumuri], a term literally meaning 'middle room' that I've never heard before
[ˈoːkɯ] - 'to/for her', i.e. [əˈʋəɭkɯ]. This is again the common sound change in multiple varieties of *ava > [oː] plus dropping of [ɭ] at the beginning of a consonant cluster, which is also fairly common
[ˈkoːn̪d̪əla] - 'tip', translated as [ˈt̪umbɯ], another word I didn't know. I'd probably just say [ˈəttəm] 'end (as in endpoint)'
[peɾuˈd̪eːɾi] - 'stonemason' or [kəlpəɳiˈkaːɾɛn]
[pəˈɾuŋɛn] - 'iguana', translated as [uˈɖumbɯ], yet another word I didn't know
[ˈmoːn̪d̪i] - see the third word in the OP
[pud̪ijaːməˈkaːr] - an old word for 'police', or as they say in the video, [poːˈliːs] :P
[kaːˈluːn̪n̪i] - 'boundary marker' or [əd̪iɾəɖeˈjaːɭəm]
[jɛˈnəkɯ] - 'to/for me', i.e. [jɛˈnikɯ]. This is kind of interesting to me because I'm pretty sure a lot of Tamils say this word this way as well, but it's not Standard Malayalam, and this is filmed about as far away from Tamil Nadu as you can get in Kerala
[ˈmaːɳɖa] - 'do(es)n't need/want', i.e. [ˈʋeːɳɖa]. Some low-caste people closer to where my parents are from also say this
[ˈkɔɭɭɯ] - 'raised bank of soil' or [ˈməɳd̪iʈa]; see also episode 2
[t̪iˈɾiɲikilla] - translated as [mənsiˈlaːjilla] 'didn't understand' but given episode 2, I'm guessing this is simply how they pronounced [t̪iˈɾiɲiʈilla] 'haven't/hasn't understood'
[ˈjiːɖɯt̪əmbəɾe] - 'up to here', i.e. [jiˈʋiɖəmʋəɾe]
[ˈaːɖɯt̪əmbəɾe] - 'up to there', i.e. [əˈʋiɖəmʋəɾe]
[bəˈkɯn̪n̪ɯ] - apparently 'from the end', but translated as [əˈtət̪ɯn̪n̪ɯ], which itself sounds non-standard. :P I might say [ətəˈt̪iːn̪n̪ɯ]
[meˈɲaːn̪n̪ɯ] - 'day before yesterday', i.e. [meniˈɲaːn̪n̪ɯ], misspelled(?) in the video as if to be pronounced *[miniˈjaːn̪n̪ɯ]
[od̪eˈjaːrkəm] - 'manners, politeness, civility', i.e. [məˈɾjaːd̪a]
[ˈɲaːɭɯ] - 'we', no equivalent in other varieties of Malayalam as far as I'm aware since it doesn't seem to be specifically inclusive or exclusive
[ˈjiŋʲi](?) - 'you', again with no single equivalent in Malayalam I know of
[pɛˈrəɳəm] - 'should give birth', i.e. [prəˈsəʋikʲɛɳəm], though I think [ˈpeːrəɳəm] might be an acceptable translation as well
[ojjaːɾəˈpaːɖɯ] - 'making a commotion', i.e. [bɛˈhɛɭəm ˈʋɛkʲəl]. The host notes that this is similar to the word [ot͡ʃəˈpaːɖɯ] 'commotion'
[ˈʋaːjʋəreja] - 'to make a fuss', i.e. [ʋəˈɻəkɯ pəˈrejuga]
[miˈrɨːrɯkɯn̪n̪ɯ] - 'am/are/is grumbling', translated as [miˈrumirukun̪n̪u], a word I wasn't familiar with