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Southern dialects

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:38 am
by sasasha
Just wondering if there is any as yet unrevealed info about the southern dialects of Verdurian (esp. Eř and Sarsfahe)?

It's understandable that there's not so much divergence from Mažtane going far to the south-east as there is going into the more immediately distinct mountainous areas (Barakhûn/Ismahi). I know the river trade encouraged cultural continuity, and imagine pilgrimage to Como played a part in this too. But with Aranicér's former importance, details like the southern pantheon, the fairly long history of political independence and even simply the distance I'd not have been surprised to have found another separate Central Eastern language lurking down here. (Or several.) Is there, perhaps, a history of surpression of localism dating back to the empire, that might help to explain this? Or is it just down to economics?

[Edit: I'm thinking as a comparison point about the classification of Scots as a separate language rather than dialect of English, which it seems was obvious in the medieval period, down-played and surpressed when it was politically convenient - during which time it also arguably moved closer to Scottish English such that the classification was more objectively controversial, and is now back in vogue.]

As I was getting interested in all this I noticed the following in the Reference Grammar:

"Note: the dialect descriptions in the old grammar are extremely outdated. They will be replaced with descriptions on Almeopedia."

Well, I'm looking forward to it! :) (Or perhaps I missed it already!)

Re: Southern dialects

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:44 am
by zompist
Those descriptions are still to come, I'm afraid. I'm busy navigating everyone through the Industrial Revolution. :)

Still, it won't be terribly far from what was there before. The most divergent Verdurian dialects are those of the far south. "Language vs dialect", as I'm sure you know, tends to excite non-linguists and bore linguists. You could certainly call Eř a separate language if you wished.

One thing to bear in mind is that Eretald is not that large! It's roughly the size of Germany + Poland-- so, it's not that surprising that it's dominated by a handful of languages.

Re: Southern dialects

Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:34 pm
by sasasha
Useful, thanks!

Out of interest, is the 'old grammar' with its outdated descriptions still available?

Re: Southern dialects

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:20 pm
by Sol717
I believe you'll probably be able to look at them using the Wayback Machine. You might run into trouble since the older version's URL isn't necessarily going to be the same as the current version's, but this can be obviated by putting http://www.zompist.com/virtuver.htm in, then clicking on whatever's linked at the archived version.

Re: Southern dialects

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:10 pm
by zompist
Yeah, that's pretty much the easiest way-- here's a direct link.

https://web.archive.org/web/20171111192 ... m#dialects