Zompist Bboard Again

If in both Sweden and Denmark standard varieties of Swedish/Danish have largely replaced local dialects while in Norway they are very widely used by all people and standard Bokmal/Nynorsk is only used when it absolutely has to. IIRC even when two Norwegians do not understand each other, they would rather switch to English than Bokmal.

Why is that the case? A lot of dialect levelling has occured all over Europe, even in relatively diverse Britain all that is left are regional accents.

Perhaps this has something to do with the fact that Norwegian has two standard varieties, Bokmal and Nynorsk (though Bokmal is much more widely used than Nynorsk)? Or it has to do with the country's topography, where many places were until quite recently only reachable by boat?

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:12 am Perhaps this has something to do with the fact that Norwegian has two standard varieties, Bokmal and Nynorsk (though Bokmal is much more widely used than Nynorsk)? Or it has to do with the country's topography, where many places were until quite recently only reachable by boat?

Most people have had access to education and to the standard variety since late 1800s at least so knowing the official varieties is not an issue. For some reason people still choose to use their local dialect in all areas of life and only write in official varieties when they need to.

Which is odd since Norway and Switzerland are the only countries in Europe in which dialects persist. UK to some degree as well but even in UK there has been massive convergence with most people now speaking standard British English with a local accent and maybe a few local words

Pretty sure Germany, Italy, and the Low Countries are still in Europe.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:42 pm Pretty sure Germany, Italy, and the Low Countries are still in Europe.

In all those places dialects are in decline in favor of standard language. Norway and Switzerland are the only places where they are not.

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:49 pm

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:42 pm Pretty sure Germany, Italy, and the Low Countries are still in Europe.

In all those places dialects are in decline in favor of standard language. Norway and Switzerland are the only places where they are not.

And both have a mountainous topography, which may mean something.

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:49 pm

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:42 pm Pretty sure Germany, Italy, and the Low Countries are still in Europe.

In all those places dialects are in decline in favor of standard language. Norway and Switzerland are the only places where they are not.

Irish and Welsh still have very dissimilar dialects, and Welsh also has a literary variety that a lot of Welsh speakers can't understand.

Otto Kretschmer wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:49 pm

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:42 pm Pretty sure Germany, Italy, and the Low Countries are still in Europe.

In all those places dialects are in decline in favor of standard language. Norway and Switzerland are the only places where they are not.

I guess we have different understandings of the word "persist". Regional varieties are still widely used in the south of Germany and in Austria, even if in many cases true local dialects are giving way to regional koinés.

Jonlang wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:19 amIrish and Welsh still have very dissimilar dialects, and Welsh also has a literary variety that a lot of Welsh speakers can't understand.

Traditional Irish dialects are moribund; they may well go extinct in our lifetime.

I'm less sure of the situation in Wales. I expect that it's similar to Germany and extremely local varieties are gradually being replaced by two regional koinés, one in the South and one in the North. After all, this division is well enshrined in the educational system, which is many speakers' primary exposure to spoken Welsh.