German Politics Thread

[Raphael]

For the record, the coalition agreement is suppose to be ratified on the CDU side by a "small" party convention, on the SPD side by a vote among all members, and on the CSU side by the Vorstand, a kind of executive committee.

If that succeeds, Merz is apparently set to become Chancellor on May the 7th.

[Raphael]

After the coalition agreement had already been approved by CDU and CSU party institutions, it was now also approved by a vote of the membership of the SPD: 84.6 percent in favor, 15.4 percent against, on a turnout of 56 percent. That means all the parties involved have now approved it, and there's nothing foreseeable stopping the coalition from going ahead. Full disclosure: Once again, I helped my Mom with casting the electronic vote.

[hwhatting]

So I finally got around to catch up with this thread. On the discussion on nuclear power, maybe I can give some background for the situation in Germany that may be important to know for people outside in order to understand our situation:
1. We had three policy changes on this in the last 20 years - first a phasing out under the Schröder government, then a phase-out of the phase-out under the 2nd Merkel government (Christian Democrat - Liberal coalition 2009-13), than the phase-out of the phase-out of the phase-out after Fukushima (BTW, that was a Grand Coalition of CDU and SPD, no Greens involved). Each time, millions were paid to the energy industry in inducements and compensation. Doing a next U-turn now would only make sense if this would really be the last change for a generation. Nobody can guarantee that.
2. In Germany, all big construction projects take decades (google the history of the new airport in Berlin or the endless saga of the reconstruction of the Stuttgart train station). This would be doubly so for something dangerous and unpopular like a nuclear reactor. So they would start producing electricity in 20 or 30 years; It's reasonable to assume that until then the storage and grid balancing problems of renewables will have been solved.
3. We can't agree on where to put the nuclear waste. As an example, the prime minister of Bavaria, Markus Söder (CSU), on one hand clamours for returning to nuclear enery, but OTOH is adamantly opposed to even exploring of whether having the final storage facility in Bavaria is feasible.
4. There were some still runnining reactors that were kept on a bid longer during the gas crisis after the Russians attacked Ukraine. But even the companies operating them stated that they couldn't be kept running much longer without big investments (for which they would have needed to be shut down.)

So, in Germany, the debate is very much only for show, with conservative politicians using the idea of switching nuclear back on as a cudgel to beat the Greens, while they know perfectly well that it would cost oodles of money and wouldn't solve the current problems. And in the long term, it's not necessary.

I personally have changed my opinion on nuclear power - I used to be for switching it off the sooner the better, everywhere. Now I'm okay with keeping it going where it works, at least until renewables are fully able to provide our energy needs. But returning to it in Germany doesn't make sense at all.

[Raphael]

As you might have heard, Friedrich Merz failed with trying to get elected as Chancellor on the first ballot. He got 310 votes (out of 630 members of the Bundestag); he would have needed 316; he should theoretically have gotten 328. Since the ballot is secret, we don't know which coalition members of the Bundestag didn't vote for him.

Since there's no precedent for that under the current constitution, everyone is unsure about what happens next. Constitutionally, the Bundestag now has two weeks to elect a Chancellor with at least 316 votes. If that doesn't happen, the Bundestag has to, after the two weeks are gone, elect a chancellor with a plurality of votes. In the meantime, Scholz stays in office as Acting Chancellor.

[Raphael]

This just in: on the second ballot, Merz got elected with 325 votes.

(Before that, the Left and the Greens had, together with the coalition parties, voted to have the second ballot today. That way, they got the two thirds needed to hold the second ballot today under some procedural rule.)

[Raphael]

And Merz took the oath. OK. Meloni is a fascist. Macron is, by now, what the Americans call a lame duck. And Starmer is a man whose main ambition is being a generic Prime Minister, who handles every situation that arises on his watch in accordance with standard procedures, so that he's completely helpless when dealing with a situation for which there are no standard procedures.

It follows that Merz, with all that's wrong with him, is now the main political leader in Western Europe. God help us all.

[Lērisama]

And Merz took the oath. OK. Meloni is a fascist. Macron is, by now, what the Americans call a lame duck. And Starmer is a man whose main ambition is being a generic Prime Minister, who handles every situation that arises on his watch in accordance with standard procedures, so that he's completely helpless when dealing with a situation for which there are no standard procedures.

It follows that Merz, with all that's wrong with him, is now the main political leader in Western Europe. God help us all.

When you put it like that, it's so much more cheery, thank you.

[Raphael]

I decided to write a little bit about a fairly trivial, not-that-important, and not even all that much talked-about aspect of German politics: public holidays!

There aren't that many remnants of Germany's somewhat distant sectarian past left today. But one of them is that there's still a bewildering array of differences between most of the traditionally mostly Catholic states and some of the traditionally mostly Protestant states about what is and what isn't a public holiday.

Now, strictly speaking, there's only one federal holiday in Germany: German Unity Day on October 3rd. There are, however, eight more so-called bundeseinheitliche, that is, "federally unified", public holidays. That means that they are not public holidays under federal law, but each of the 16 states has the same state laws about them.

And then there are some holidays that are only public holidays in some states, but not in all. Traditionally, some of these were holidays particularly important in Catholicism which are only public holidays in some historically mostly Catholic states in the more southerly parts of the country, like Corpus Christi, Assumption Day, and All Saints Day, the last of which is on November 1st, which you might know as the day after Halloween.

This had traditionally led to some rather mean-spirited stereotyping of Catholics as people who like to take a lot of days off work among people in the traditionally more Protestant states in the more northerly parts of the country. In any case, a while ago, some people in those states apparently thought that they wanted to have a public holiday of their own, too. And so, on the occasion of the 500th anniversary of the initial start of Protestantism, which had happened back in 1517, they settled on Reformation Day. That is, the anniversary of the day on which, according to legend, Martin Luther had nailed his initial 95 theses about what he thought was wrong with the Church to a church door in Wittenberg. Which is, as it happens, October 31st. That is, Halloween, or the day before All Saints' Day.

Wikipedia has a nice overview of all that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_ho ... in_Germany

The reason why I bring all this up now is that recently, someone from a business organization within the conservative CDU party said that Reformation Day should be abolished, because people didn't celebrate it anyway, and it would supposedly be better for Germany's competitiveness in the global business environment if there would be fewer public holidays.

I'm fairly embarrassed to say this, but, although I'm no fan of sectarianism, although I stopped thinking of myself as a Christian a while ago, and although I have a fairly low opinion of Martin Luther as a person and a historical figure, my initial reaction to hearing that was still a kind of impulsive knee-jerk thought along the lines of "We can give up Reformation Day as soon as those people down there in the South give up All Saints Day!" As I said, highly embarrassing, but I guess sometimes you can't really control your gut-level feelings about things.

[Travis B.]

Honestly, I'd've reacted the same way, and I've never been a Christian (celebrating Christmas and Easter notwithstanding).

[Ares Land]

Oh, they did that too in France last year -- that is, they tried to remove a couple of public holidays. I very much would like to keep Easter Monday off myself!

Many of our public holidays are Catholic in origin too, though in this mostly secular country, people don't really know what Pentecost or Assumption are (except from days off, though). I'm hazy about the details myself; various people and/or the Holy Spirit moving up and down?

[Raphael]

and I've never been a Christian (celebrating Christmas and Easter notwithstanding).

I can imagine Christmas, but how does your secular observance of Easter look like? I mean, you're clearly too old to hunt for eggs, and judging from some of your past posts, I've got the impression that the one child of yours about whom you occasionally talk is, by now, too old to hunt for eggs, too. And I'm not sure if I can think of any ways of celebrating Easter other than 1) attending religious service, and 2) hunting for eggs.

[Travis B.]

and I've never been a Christian (celebrating Christmas and Easter notwithstanding).

I can imagine Christmas, but how does your secular observance of Easter look like? I mean, you're clearly too old to hunt for eggs, and judging from some of your past posts, I've got the impression that the one child of yours about whom you occasionally talk is, by now, too old to hunt for eggs, too. And I'm not sure if I can think of any ways of celebrating Easter other than 1) attending religious service, and 2) hunting for eggs.

In the past as a kid me and my sister would get Easter baskets with candy and like in them on Easter Sunday, and then we'd go to my grandma's house and wait for the rest of the family to get back from church (my parents were/are atheists and me and my sister were not raised to be religious* per se, while the rest of my mom's family was/is Catholic), and have then a big lunch/dinner with my mom's family (whenever we were at my grandma's lunch and dinner were always combined, were always in early-mid afternoon, and were always big). We would also do dyeing of hardboiled eggs and Easter egg hunting on the Saturday before Easter.

These days we don't really do that much for Easter aside from that my daughter gets an Easter basket, we dye hardboiled eggs, and we make special holiday food such as ham, deviled eggs (which is what the hardboiled eggs are used for after they are dyed), and broccoli casserole (for some reason in my family this is a holiday food).

* We were not raised to have any particular religious beliefs, including atheism and agnosticism (my parents did not tell me they were/are atheists until I was an adult), even though as mentioned we celebrated Christmas and Easter; I myself only went to church for weddings and funerals, but as a teenager my sister of her own accord would go with a friend to church. Later on my parents explained this that they wanted me and my sister to find our own beliefs without being told to believe or not believe in anything in particular. That said, I knew by middle school that my family was irreligious and that I personally did not believe, which made things extremely awkward because I was in Boy Scouts and as someone in Boy Scouts you were required to go to a religious service of some kind (and I didn't and I don't think my parents knew that actually the Boy Scouts do not allow atheists as members); I awkwardly ended up sitting through some kind of service (it was either Protestant or Catholic, I don't remember which) at Boy Scout camp while doing my best to ignore the whole affair.

[Raphael]

Thank you!

[zompist]

FWIW my sister's family is a good example. (We spend our Easters with her family.) We put out (plastic) eggs for the kids to hunt and we have a big meal. The adults get chocolate and leftovers.

When I was a kid we'd go to church, but that element disappeared even while my parents were alive.

[Raphael]

Thank you, too!

[Raphael]

Responding to something Germany-related that jcb posted in the US Politics Thread:

Looking at a map of Germany during the last election ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Germ ... ection.svg ), there's a correlation between what used to be East Germany and voting for the AfD now. Was/Is East Germany more racist than West Germany? Can racism alone explain the difference?

Yes and yes. Neonazis were already a very big thing in the East back in the 1990s. Partly it's because during partition, there was very little migration to the East, so there was more of a shock when migrants eventually did arrive; and partly, IMO, it's because the East simply mostly didn't have the cultural and social changes that happened in the West between 1950 and 1990.

[WeepingElf]

Responding to something Germany-related that jcb posted in the US Politics Thread:

Looking at a map of Germany during the last election ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Germ ... ection.svg ), there's a correlation between what used to be East Germany and voting for the AfD now. Was/Is East Germany more racist than West Germany? Can racism alone explain the difference?

Yes and yes. Neonazis were already a very big thing in the East back in the 1990s. Partly it's because during partition, there was very little migration to the East, so there was more of a shock when migrants eventually did arrive; and partly, IMO, it's because the East simply mostly didn't have the cultural and social changes that happened in the West between 1950 and 1990.

Also, the GDR did not really combat fascism but denied that it still existed. The official stance was that fascism was extinguished for ever, so whatever evidence to the contrary there was, was suppressed. Also, there were of course the former secret police officers who had to find a new social niche - and that was fascism, first the NPD and later the AfD, the only relevant parties who promised to put them into their old jobs again if they took over.

[Raphael]

I mostly agree with you on this, WeepingElf, but...

Also, there were of course the former secret police officers who had to find a new social niche - and that was fascism, first the NPD and later the AfD, the only relevant parties who promised to put them into their old jobs again if they took over.

Any real data on this? I thought that type had simply ended up as a large part of the local chapters of the Left party.

[WeepingElf]

I mostly agree with you on this, WeepingElf, but...

Also, there were of course the former secret police officers who had to find a new social niche - and that was fascism, first the NPD and later the AfD, the only relevant parties who promised to put them into their old jobs again if they took over.

Any real data on this? I thought that type had simply ended up as a large part of the local chapters of the Left party.

I can't give you a source, just dimly remember old newspaper stories about former Stasi officers joining the NPD en masse.

[Raphael]

I can't give you a source, just dimly remember old newspaper stories about former Stasi officers joining the NPD en masse.

Thank you. Nice to hear of another thing that wouldn't have happened if the tankies' view of the world would be true.