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[Raphael]

Personally I don't care about Nort or xxx's politics as long as they keep them to themselves.

Not everyone sees things your way, though.

[malloc]

Personally I don't care about Nort or xxx's politics as long as they keep them to themselves.

Not everyone sees things your way, though.

Quite. Millions of people will get violently expelled from their countries of residence or die horrible agonizing deaths if the fascists get their way. Currently the far right is gaining incredible momentum all across the world and only needs one more election to take power in many countries.

[zompist]

Admittedly, nortaneous and xxx are quite unusual among fascists in that they aren't actively promoting their ideology here or inviting other fascists to this forum. That eliminates the main practical reason for banning fascists. Nonetheless it does leave a bad taste in my mouth for this forum to adopt a neutral position on fascism.

Be careful what you ask for. I could easily ban

--Torco, for cheerleading Trump and Putin
--you, for your doomerism that discourages activism and elevates Trump
--Raphael, for echoing right-wing talking points against feminism
--Everybody, for being what rotting bones calls a fascist
--Everybody, for their positions either for or against the war in Gaza

There is also the pervasive conceit of NCNC in the conlanging community—“No Cross, No Crown”. In my experience it is deeply baked into the scene; it’s rare for conlanging communities to carry the torch for or against specific political causes

I've never heard that slogan. It's true that the ZBB is not a political forum. But bigotry isn't acceptable here. And again, what politics people express here is almost always pretty left-wing.

[Man in Space]

There is also the pervasive conceit of NCNC in the conlanging community—“No Cross, No Crown”. In my experience it is deeply baked into the scene; it’s rare for conlanging communities to carry the torch for or against specific political causes

I've never heard that slogan

I am extremely surprised at this, especially since you seem to administer things in a fashion consistent with some other places that adhere to that. I know this is described enforced in some other communities (r/conlangs and its siblings most prominent of them). It’s also associated with CONLANG-L.

[malloc]

Be careful what you ask for. I could easily ban

--Torco, for cheerleading Trump and Putin
--you, for your doomerism that discourages activism and elevates Trump
--Raphael, for echoing right-wing talking points against feminism
--Everybody, for being what rotting bones calls a fascist
--Everybody, for their positions either for or against the war in Gaza

Sure but fascism is qualitatively worse than all of that, even Torco's misguided tankie musings. The fascists consider 90% of humanity subhuman vermin and want them exterminated or at least driven out of the West at gunpoint. They already attempted just that in WWII and they have repeatedly proclaimed their intention to try again. Just look at "Camp of the Saints" and the "Turner Diaries" if you can stomach them.

[Ares Land]

Three pages? You guys have been busy

I remember the ZBB being kind of alt-right. I was a lot less active by then, so memories are hazy, but wasn't that more than ten years ago? This is a very left-wing place now, and has been that way for a while.

[Raphael]

I remember the ZBB being kind of alt-right. I was a lot less active by then, so memories are hazy, but wasn't that more than ten years ago?

IIRC, though that was during my ZBB hiatus (itself mainly caused by that stuff), the turning point was when zompist banned two assholes and malloc, and a whole lot of other assholes decided that if the ZBB was now the kind of place where being an asshole might get you banned, they didn't want to be here any more. (Wasn't that the origin story of the CBB?)

[rotting bones]

I remember the ZBB being kind of alt-right. I was a lot less active by then, so memories are hazy, but wasn't that more than ten years ago? This is a very left-wing place now, and has been that way for a while.

Only because left-wingers put some effort into our arguments. I feel like the idea that the forum is "naturally" left-wing is the kind of rewriting of history we see from liberal historiographers. It flattens all the effort that went into turning the forum left-wing into the current "nature" of the forum. Much like society, being a human creation, this forum doesn't have a nature. If left-wingers stop posting convincing arguments, the forum will just slide back into Nazism, like we see with the rise of the far right worldwide.

[rotting bones]

The Nazis also thought capitalism was bad!

Nazis aren't against exploiting workers. What they don't like about commerce is that it's not fully subordinated under the command of one great leader.

[rotting bones]

--Everybody, for being what rotting bones calls a fascist

Just to be clear: In my multiple decades on this forum, I have reported a post zero times IIRC. I have been reported and tempbanned for calling fascists like cunningham fascists.

There are some more right-leaning people left here, but I'm not inclined to name names given the current reaction.

[rotting bones]

(I think it should hopefully be clear to everyone here that I am no fascist.)

I think you are a small-c conservative or a "timid libertarian" like Tom Stoppard.

[bradrn]

(I think it should hopefully be clear to everyone here that I am no fascist.)

I think you are a small-c conservative or a "timid libertarian" like Tom Stoppard.

Eh, that doesn’t seem too far off… though I wouldn’t describe myself as a conservative (I’m sympathetic to a lot of things which conservatives generally hate), and I know nothing about Tom Stoppard’s political views.

[zompist]

I remember the ZBB being kind of alt-right. I was a lot less active by then, so memories are hazy, but wasn't that more than ten years ago? This is a very left-wing place now, and has been that way for a while.

Only because left-wingers put some effort into our arguments. I feel like the idea that the forum is "naturally" left-wing is the kind of rewriting of history we see from liberal historiographers. It flattens all the effort that went into turning the forum left-wing into the current "nature" of the forum. Much like society, being a human creation, this forum doesn't have a nature. If left-wingers stop posting convincing arguments, the forum will just slide back into Nazism, like we see with the rise of the far right worldwide.

No one said "naturally". And flattering though it is to yourself, no one was convinced by eloquent left-wingers. As Raphael noted, some disruptive trollish people were finally kicked out. But hey, thanks for recognizing the work linguoboy and I have put into keeping the board a good place. Oh wait, you didn't recognize it, you just trollishly insulted my integrity. Wow, I'm sure glad I provide a forum for you to shit on.

I have reported a post zero times IIRC.

Didn't say you did. I said you repeatedly call any group you don't agree with fascists.

I have been reported and tempbanned

Not on this version of the board you haven't. The previous board, I don't remember.

[rotting bones]

And flattering though it is to yourself, no one was convinced by eloquent left-wingers.

I don't really think humans can be convinced, but I'm free speech still has its merits. The way to slide the Overton window to the left is to talk in such a way that the apolitical people, when they encounter fascist arguments, immediately remember leftist counterarguments.

Personally, I'm a very uncharismatic writer. You, linguoboy and Salmoneus were major contributors to the effort I'm referring to. I don't know why you are minimizing all this hard work.

As Raphael noted, some disruptive trollish people were finally kicked out. But hey, thanks for recognizing the work linguoboy and I have put into keeping the board a good place.

What kicked out? I distinctly remember you told Pabappa you liked him. Like Nort, he eventually mellowed out and started posting centrist conservative politics. Well, except that he implicitly trusted Putin. He posted predictions about Putin magnanimously ending the war. When Putin humiliated himself, he stopped posting. The other right-wingers don't post much here because the things we say make them think convincing us will be too much hard work. Maybe some things even sank in, who knows. This is what I mean when I say the Overton window on this forum slid left.

As for bans, some fascists were sometimes tempbanned when they went too far, and people complained. Sometimes I was kicked out for calling people fascists because they posted racist shit, and other people didn't see it as racist. You might not remember this. Before Trump was elected, there was an influential faction of liberals here who said leftists were hysterically calling Americans racist, when Americans were some of the least racist people in the world. Because I wasn't American and cummingham was, they assumed I was racist against Americans. As he kept posting more and more racist shit, everyone eventually caught on. He kept getting tempbanned until he left.

If the fascists were kicked out of this forum, then I was kicked out too, and I'm still here.

All this is a small taste of the history you're flattening into simplistic talking points.

Oh wait, you didn't recognize it, you just trollishly insulted my integrity. Wow, I'm sure glad I provide a forum for you to shit on.

I didn't even respond to you. For some reason, you like to interpret everything I post as a personal attack on you. Does my conworld scratchpad look like an attack on Almea to you too?

If you (like Salmoneus) don't like my personality, go ahead and ban me. I can post my stuff on my personal website.

Didn't say you did. I said you repeatedly call any group you don't agree with fascists.

Whom have a called a fascist? I have said that the Overton window in general society has slid very far to the right. This has been confirmed by polling. I have called people genocide supporters when they have supported genocide. I have called fascists fascist.

Edit: As for Nort, I think a part of his calculation is that since the US is no longer a white-majority country, his white-majority politics is no longer likely to lead to future success.

[Raphael]

As Raphael noted, some disruptive trollish people were finally kicked out. But hey, thanks for recognizing the work linguoboy and I have put into keeping the board a good place.

What kicked out?

Since this is indirectly referring to something I posted, I should probably explain that I wasn't talking about bans of fascists. IIRC, aside from malloc, who was later reinstated, the two people who got banned in the Great Banning Incident were a French libertarian with a long habit of, among other things, calling all non-libertarians "looneys", which was silly and somewhat annoying more than anything else, and a guy with fairly difficult-to-figure-out views. As I said, the main impact was not so much in the bannings themselves, but in the fact that they made some other assholes angry enough that they left on their own.

[rotting bones]

Since this is indirectly referring to something I posted, I should probably explain that I wasn't talking about bans of fascists. IIRC, aside from malloc, who was later reinstated, the two people who got banned in the Great Banning Incident were a French libertarian with a long habit of, among other things, calling all non-libertarians "looneys", which was silly and somewhat annoying more than anything else, and a guy with fairly difficult-to-figure-out views. As I said, the main impact was not so much in the bannings themselves, but in the fact that they made some other assholes angry enough that they left on their own.

Some loud ones, sure. But there were and are many, many right-leaning members on the ZBB, most of whom couldn't be bothered. I will send you a PM.

[rotting bones]

Eh, that doesn’t seem too far off… though I wouldn’t describe myself as a conservative (I’m sympathetic to a lot of things which conservatives generally hate), and I know nothing about Tom Stoppard’s political views.

I think you're a small-c conservative because you have consistently supported centrist liberal or center-right candidates the two or three times I remember you expressing a preference.

[bradrn]

Eh, that doesn’t seem too far off… though I wouldn’t describe myself as a conservative (I’m sympathetic to a lot of things which conservatives generally hate), and I know nothing about Tom Stoppard’s political views.

I think you're a small-c conservative because you have consistently supported centrist liberal or center-right candidates the two or three times I remember you expressing a preference.

‘Centrist liberal’ does seem like a pretty reasonable description of my views. I’m not averse to centre-right candidates (as long as they’re more centrist than right-wing), but in the last Australian election I voted for Labor, which is centre-left.

[/ˌnɐ.ˈɾɛn.dɚ.ˌduːd/]

I'm a bit late to the party but this still warrants posting:

the problem with banning people from the ZBB for their political views is the fact that this isn't an online community about politics, this is an online community about making conlangs. politics have virtually no foothold here, or at least that's how it ought to be, and it should be kept that way.

[Travis B.]

I'm a bit late to the party but this still warrants posting:

the problem with banning people from the ZBB for their political views is the fact that this isn't an online community about politics, this is an online community about making conlangs. politics have virtually no foothold here, or at least that's how it ought to be, and it should be kept that way.

Much of the discussion on the Ephemera forum these days has a decidedly left-wing slant but as a whole it is not specifically a political forum and is open to people with non-left-wing political views.