What do you call ...

[Raphael]

I'm used to 'American Revolutionary War' and 'American War of Independence' both being in common usage.

Interesting. I had seen it called "Revolutionary War", but I think I never saw or heard it called the "American Revolutionary War" before I read the opening of the Wikipedia article on it in preparation for writing my previous post here.

[hwhatting]

In German it is usually called Amerikanischer Unabhängigkeitskrieg (= War of Independence), so when I first read references to the "Revolutionary War" in American sources, I had no idea what war they were talking about. I guess the usual European view of the war is as it being an event of gaining independence / an act of decolonisation, not as a revolution.

[Raphael]

In German it is usually called Amerikanischer Unabhängigkeitskrieg (= War of Independence), so when I first read references to the "Revolutionary War" in American sources, I had no idea what war they were talking about.

Same.

[Travis B.]

In German it is usually called Amerikanischer Unabhängigkeitskrieg (= War of Independence), so when I first read references to the "Revolutionary War" in American sources, I had no idea what war they were talking about. I guess the usual European view of the war is as it being an event of gaining independence / an act of decolonisation, not as a revolution.

The American War of Independence / American Revolutionary War was a direct outgrowth of the American Revolution, which was the first significant liberal revolution and the first of the Atlantic revolutions.

[Lērisama]

In German it is usually called Amerikanischer Unabhängigkeitskrieg (= War of Independence), so when I first read references to the "Revolutionary War" in American sources, I had no idea what war they were talking about. I guess the usual European view of the war is as it being an event of gaining independence / an act of decolonisation, not as a revolution.

Yeah, it's usually (American/US¹) war of independence here², and I associate Revolutionary War with the US, although that could just be because most information about it is from there. I suspect the reasoning is similar, with the added bonus of being able to make jokes about fighting a war to finally get rid of the annoying Americans³.

¹ Omitted if obvious from context here
² UK
³ And losing, if you're that way inclined

[Raphael]

I thought there wouldn't be any term for it in British English because the British would prefer not to talk about it at all.

[jal]

I thought there wouldn't be any term for it in British English because the British would prefer not to talk about it at all. :P

"The rebel uprising" :)


JAL

[hwhatting]

The American War of Independence / American Revolutionary War was a direct outgrowth of the American Revolution, which was the first significant liberal revolution and the first of the Atlantic revolutions.

Again, that is very much an American view of the whole event; traditionally, what happened in the colonies wasn't taught as a case of "Revolution" in history lessons in at least Germany and I also assume in other European countries.

[Raphael]

The American War of Independence / American Revolutionary War was a direct outgrowth of the American Revolution, which was the first significant liberal revolution and the first of the Atlantic revolutions.

Again, that is very much an American view of the whole event; traditionally, what happened in the colonies wasn't taught as a case of "Revolution" in history lessons in at least Germany and I also assume in other European countries.

Mostly true, but not in all historical publications. For instance, the 1960s Propyläen Weltgeschichte, which was clearly edited with the ambition to create a standard German-language historical reference, contains a contribution called "Die amerikanische Revolution" (The American Revolution) and another one called "Der Einfluß der amerikanischen Revolution auf Europa" (The Influence of the American Revolution on Europe). And the contents of the second one of these make it appear as if supporting the USA during that time was one of the first main fashionable causes among exactly the type of person in Europe which would, ironically enough, centuries later, end up as the kind of person most likely to be critical of the USA.

[Travis B.]

The American War of Independence / American Revolutionary War was a direct outgrowth of the American Revolution, which was the first significant liberal revolution and the first of the Atlantic revolutions.

Again, that is very much an American view of the whole event; traditionally, what happened in the colonies wasn't taught as a case of "Revolution" in history lessons in at least Germany and I also assume in other European countries.

Mostly true, but not in all historical publications. For instance, the 1960s Propyläen Weltgeschichte, which was clearly edited with the ambition to create a standard German-language historical reference, contains a contribution called "Die amerikanische Revolutuion" (The American Revolution) and another one called "Der Einfluß der amerikanischen Revolution auf Europa" (The Influence of the American Revolution on Europe). And the contents of the second one of these make it appear as if supporting the USA during that time was one of the first main fashionable causes among exactly the type of person in Europe which would, ironically enough, centuries later, end up as the kind of person most likely to be critical of the USA.

I get the impression that it is fashionable these days to deny the revolution-ness of the American Revolution and to regard viewing the whole episode as being a revolution as being an American nationalist point of view. Of course, then, that distorts the history of the other Atlantic revolutions by removing the first example of them which inspired ones after it.

[jal]

I'm not a historian, nor a fan of historical non-fiction, so a genuine question: can an uprising in a colony actually a "revolution"? What I've been taught in history class (we're talking about the mid-80s) was that a revolution is the uprising of "the people" against "their government", "the people" implicitly meaning "in the country the government resides". Otherwise it was called a "war of independence" or "independence struggle" etc. (e.g. the uprising in Indonesia).


JAL

[Travis B.]

I'm not a historian, nor a fan of historical non-fiction, so a genuine question: can an uprising in a colony actually a "revolution"? What I've been taught in history class (we're talking about the mid-80s) was that a revolution is the uprising of "the people" against "their government", "the people" implicitly meaning "in the country the government resides". Otherwise it was called a "war of independence" or "independence struggle" etc. (e.g. the uprising in Indonesia).

The reason to regard the American Revolution as being a revolution is that it was the first successful attempt to found a government on liberal principles, against the aristocratic principles on which the British Empire (which at the time was nowhere near democratic, even when one only counts white men, cf. rotten boroughs) was based.

Yes, there were many limitations to said liberal principles in practice (e.g. slavery, lack of women's suffrage, discrimination against Catholics), but even then the influence of slavery on those behind the American Revolution is overstated (e.g. most signers of the Declaration of Independence were not slave-owners unlike what some may assume).

About Indonesia, the wiki page on Wikipedia has the events there under Indonesian National Revolution (and yes, it involved a social revolution alongside an independence struggle).

[jal]

About Indonesia, the wiki page on Wikipedia has the events there under Indonesian National Revolution (and yes, it involved a social revolution alongside an independence struggle).

Thanks for the answer. Interestingly, the Dutch page is called "Indonesian war of independence" (what I remembered from history lessons).


JAL

[Travis B.]

About Indonesia, the wiki page on Wikipedia has the events there under Indonesian National Revolution (and yes, it involved a social revolution alongside an independence struggle).

Thanks for the answer. Interestingly, the Dutch page is called "Indonesian war of independence" (what I remembered from history lessons).

That does seem akin to how the British prefer "American War of Independence" over "American Revolutionary War", I should note.

[Raphael]

jal: Depends on how you define the term "revolution", I guess. And linguistically, I'm one of the people who think that arguing about the "proper" definition of this or that is a pointless exercise.

I get the impression that it is fashionable these days to deny the revolution-ness of the American Revolution and to regard viewing the whole episode as being a revolution as being an American nationalist point of view. Of course, then, that distorts the history of the other Atlantic revolutions by removing the first example of them which inspired ones after it.

Another factor might have been that before they became all about all-Trump, all-the-time, conservatives in the USA loved to hero-worship the founders of their country. And that put them into the somewhat awkward position that they were very proud to be conservative, but at the same time, they were a lot into hero-worshipping a group of people whose main claim to fame was that they had led a revolution. So those conservatives had an interest in arguing that the revolution hadn't been all that revolutionary, too.

[Raphael]

What do you call a small fork, as in, the fork equivalent of a tea spoon?

[bradrn]

What do you call a small fork, as in, the fork equivalent of a tea spoon?

I call the design usually encountered a ‘cake fork’:

[Raphael]

What do you call a small fork, as in, the fork equivalent of a tea spoon?

I call the design usually encountered a ‘cake fork’:

Oh, really? That sounds like a calque of the German term. I wouldn't have expected that.

[Lērisama]

What do you call a small fork, as in, the fork equivalent of a tea spoon?

I call the design usually encountered a ‘cake fork’:

Me too. Would you really call it a Kuchengabel in German? That sounds odd to me somehow.

[Raphael]

Would you really call it a Kuchengabel in German? That sounds odd to me somehow.

No, it's the perfectly regular term.