Sound Change Quickie Thread

[bradrn]

I have a conlang that merges tautosyllabic /pl tl kl/ into /t͡ɬ/. Is it plausible for tautosyllabic /tl/ to thereafter be reintroduced via borrowing and maintain a stable contrast with /t͡ɬ/?

I don’t see why not.

[Richard W]

I have a conlang that merges tautosyllabic /pl tl kl/ into /t͡ɬ/. Is it plausible for tautosyllabic /tl/ to thereafter be reintroduced via borrowing and maintain a stable contrast with /t͡ɬ/?

I would say that reintroduction would be hard but not impossible. The contrast of /tl/ and /t͡ɬ/ might be borrowed from a higher register language. However, I don't think the contrast would be stable, though literacy might assist it.

[Ahzoh]

How to best combine these two sound change situation without involving vowel harmony?

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Basically

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 /æ e ø i y ɑ ɤ o ɯ u/           > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲĭ ʲŭ a e o ĭ ŭ/ > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲ∅ ʲ∅ a e o ∅ ∅/
 /æː eː øː iː yː ɑː ɤː oː ɯː uː/ > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲi ʲu a e o i u/ > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲi ʲu a e o i u/

I find it difficult because I would need an extremely large vowel inventory as well as length, and more difficult without having vowel harmony

[bradrn]

Basically

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 /æ e ø i y ɑ ɤ o ɯ u/           > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲĭ ʲŭ a e o ĭ ŭ/ > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲ∅ ʲ∅ a e o ∅ ∅/
 /æː eː øː iː yː ɑː ɤː oː ɯː uː/ > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲi ʲu a e o i u/ > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲi ʲu a e o i u/

I find it difficult because I would need an extremely large vowel inventory as well as length, and more difficult without having vowel harmony

I don’t see why you would need vowel harmony here. This is ten vowel qualities — large, but not unprecedentedly so.

[Ahzoh]

Basically

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 /æ e ø i y ɑ ɤ o ɯ u/           > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲĭ ʲŭ a e o ĭ ŭ/ > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲ∅ ʲ∅ a e o ∅ ∅/
 /æː eː øː iː yː ɑː ɤː oː ɯː uː/ > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲi ʲu a e o i u/ > /ʲa ʲe ʲo ʲi ʲu a e o i u/

I find it difficult because I would need an extremely large vowel inventory as well as length, and more difficult without having vowel harmony

I don’t see why you would need vowel harmony here. This is ten vowel qualities — large, but not unprecedentedly so.

I guess it's not that big, but I can't find any languages that have both mid and high front rounded vowels AND mid and high back unrounded vowels AND long vowel counterparts for all of the qualities AND lack vowel harmony. Proto-Samoyedic, from which this vowel inventory is taken, lacks length and comes from an ancestor that had vowel harmony and it possibly does as well.

[bradrn]

I guess it's not that big, but I can't find any languages that have both mid and high front rounded vowels AND mid and high back unrounded vowels AND long vowel counterparts for all of the qualities AND lack vowel harmony.

Toda almost qualifies (it only lacks /ø/).

[/ˌnɐ.ˈɾɛn.dɚ.ˌduːd/]

how might one go about evolving a uvular series? I'm aware that I could just back preexisting velars, but I'm looking for a more creative process that contrasts the two, so that I can go about collapsing them uniquely in daughter languages.

[Man in Space]

how might one go about evolving a uvular series? I'm aware that I could just back preexisting velars, but I'm looking for a more creative process that contrasts the two, so that I can go about collapsing them uniquely in daughter languages.

Rhinoglottophilia. *h > dorsal nasal and/or uvular plosive therefrom.

[Travis B.]

how might one go about evolving a uvular series? I'm aware that I could just back preexisting velars, but I'm looking for a more creative process that contrasts the two, so that I can go about collapsing them uniquely in daughter languages.

Rhinoglottophilia. *h > dorsal nasal and/or uvular plosive therefrom.

Another way to do it is to conditionally back preexisting dorsals, e.g. K > Q directly before back vowels followed by reduction of /r/ in onset clusters (e.g. elision of /r/ after dorsal consonants and conversion of coronals followed by /r/ into retroflexes). This means that, say, /ku/ > /qu/ but /kru/ > /ku/.

(Edit: corrected "uvulars" to "dorsals".)

[Lērisama]

how might one go about evolving a uvular series? I'm aware that I could just back preexisting velars, but I'm looking for a more creative process that contrasts the two, so that I can go about collapsing them uniquely in daughter languages.

Rhinoglottophilia. *h > dorsal nasal and/or uvular plosive therefrom.

Another way to do it is to conditionally back preexisting uvulars, e.g. K > Q directly before back vowels followed by reduction of /r/ in onset clusters (e.g. elision of /r/ after dorsal consonants and conversion of coronals followed by /r/ into retroflexes). This means that, say, /ku/ > /qu/ but /kru/ > /ku/.

Or the other way round: I could see a /kru/ → /kʁu/ → /qʁu/ → /qu/

[Skookum]

If by "without backing preexisting velars" you mean any shift of *k > q, then I can't see too many pathways to get uvulars. A couple come to mind:

*h > χ (> q)
*r > ʁ (> q)

If conditional backing of velars is ok, then there are a lot more options. Many "Altaic" languages have uvular allophones of velars in back harmony words. If you have a similar system and vowel merges occur and harmony degrades/collapses, you could end up with contrastive uvulars, eg.:

*ke ka [ke qa] > ka qa

Maybe even something like pharyngealization? So *tˤ > *tʶ > *tq > q?

[/ˌnɐ.ˈɾɛn.dɚ.ˌduːd/]

If by "without backing preexisting velars" you mean any shift of *k > q, then I can't see too many pathways to get uvulars. A couple come to mind:

*h > χ (> q)
*r > ʁ (> q)

If conditional backing of velars is ok, then there are a lot more options. Many "Altaic" languages have uvular allophones of velars in back harmony words. If you have a similar system and vowel merges occur and harmony degrades/collapses, you could end up with contrastive uvulars, eg.:

*ke ka [ke qa] > ka qa

Maybe even something like pharyngealization? So *tˤ > *tʶ > *tq > q?

I suppose I meant without plainly having something like this occur:

k > q
g > ɢ
x > χ
etc...

conditional backing would work, I personally wouldn't've thought of anything without backing velars. however, I like this /h/ > /χ/ > /q/ idea, as I already have word-final fortition in place. thanks!

[StrangerCoug]

Is it attested for a language to lose only some of its ejective consonants (say losing ejection in /pʼ tʼ/ but keeping it in /t͡sʼ t͡ʃʼ kʼ/)?

[bradrn]

Is it attested for a language to lose only some of its ejective consonants (say losing ejection in /pʼ tʼ/ but keeping it in /t͡sʼ t͡ʃʼ kʼ/)?

Seems fine to me.

[Travis B.]

Is it attested for a language to lose only some of its ejective consonants (say losing ejection in /pʼ tʼ/ but keeping it in /t͡sʼ t͡ʃʼ kʼ/)?

Seems fine to me.

/pʼ tʼ/, and especially /pʼ/, seem to be the least common ejectives in the first place.

Edit: Corrected "affricates" to "ejectives".

[bradrn]

Is it attested for a language to lose only some of its ejective consonants (say losing ejection in /pʼ tʼ/ but keeping it in /t͡sʼ t͡ʃʼ kʼ/)?

Seems fine to me.

/pʼ tʼ/, and especially /pʼ/, seem to be the least common affricates in the first place.

Least common ejectives, I think you mean.

[Travis B.]

Seems fine to me.

/pʼ tʼ/, and especially /pʼ/, seem to be the least common affricates in the first place.

Least common ejectives, I think you mean.

Yeah, mis-wrote; I've corrected my post.