United States Politics Thread 47

[rotting bones]

Am I misunderstanding something, or did Qatar blow up only very recently? https://www.statista.com/statistics/379 ... -in-qatar/ How is this possible?

[zompist]

Am I misunderstanding something, or did Qatar blow up only very recently? https://www.statista.com/statistics/379 ... -in-qatar/ How is this possible?

I wouldn't trust their data past 2025.

[jcb]

"Ro Khanna reveals 6 redacted names in the Epstein files on the House floor"
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_zWBOV_bng

[Raphael]

Yup, looks like his incompetence will trump him this time. kidnapping maduro but allowing his successor, and the PSUV in general, continue to rule isn't likely to reassure US capital.

Then again, if you take as a starting point that he wanted to commit some kind of aggression against Venezuela, the abduction was probably the relatively speaking least stupid thing he could have done. After Iraq and Afghanistan, full-fledged wars fought by US troops have become fairly unpopular in the USA. As for getting the CIA to organize a coup, I'm not sure - the Venezuelan military certainly used to be as fascist as other Latin American militaries, but I'm not sure to which extent that's still true after decades of rule by Chávez and Maduro. Perhaps they're too reliable from the Venezuelan government's perspective, and not reliable enough from the CIA's perspective, to make that a safe bet.

[Raphael]

This is more a matter related to US culture and society, but I'd say that is has political implications in the broadest sense, and the brief conversation started out from a very definitely political matter.

The starting point was a discussion on Bluesky, back last Friday, of the arrest of five year old Liam Conejo Ramos by Trump's goons. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention ... nejo_Ramos)

At one point, Bluesky user Ryan Marino posted

The people whose names literally show up thousands of times in the Epstein files want you to think a 5-year-old refugee and star kindergarten student is the problem with this country rather than the white pedophiles in charge of it who keep stealing American money and assaulting American children

I replied to that with a post that, I admit, focused on a very small, only tangentially related matter - I didn't really have anything interesting to say about the complete fucked-up-ness of the case itself:

Then again, the fact that your country has the concept of a "star kindergarten student" is probably a small part of the problem, too. A very *small* part, compared to the lying murdering scumbags currently in charge, but still, a part. Can't kids be allowed to just be kids?

Now, I got a few likes for that, so perhaps some people agreed with my point. However, a Bluesky user going by the handle Augs&RockyFella replied with

In our country, we reward good behavior. We celebrate achievements and praise those who have done a good job. We do so from the get-go.

Don’t understand or like it? Well, that’s not our problem.

I tried to think of possible replies to that, but decided that I didn't want to go into full Wrong On The Internet mode.

Again, all this is fairly trivial compared to the horror of the way Liam Conejo Ramos was treated. And I know that compared to the way some Asian cultures push children into a permanent rat race from the start, the way the USA handles this thing is downright mild. But still - ranking kids that young among each other in that way seems somehow just wrong to me.

So what do you think?

[bradrn]

I replied to that with a post that, I admit, focused on a very small, only tangentially related matter - I didn't really have anything interesting to say about the complete fucked-up-ness of the case itself:

Then again, the fact that your country has the concept of a "star kindergarten student" is probably a small part of the problem, too. A very *small* part, compared to the lying murdering scumbags currently in charge, but still, a part. Can't kids be allowed to just be kids?

Look… I like talking to you, but this kind of comment infuriates me nonetheless. I’m speaking as someone who skipped 3 years of high school, after being told by several other schools that they could not possibly allow me to do such a thing. Their ‘reasoning’ was precisely this sort of ‘letting kids be kids’ argument that you reference here.

Let me state clearly: ‘kids’ are not a homogeneous population and they do not all like the same things or behave the same way. For my whole life I have loved academic subjects and been good at them, and I’ve been lucky enough to have had parents who’ve supported me in this. There is nothing bad about being like that, and there is certainly no reason to try to force me into a mold of ‘how kids should act’. As a matter of fact my junior school tried just that, refusing to do much more than letting me take a couple of higher-year classes, on the grounds that ‘he needs to be able to make friends’ etc. etc. No, I wasn’t going to be making friends with kids my age anyway, and the experience of going through the typical schooling process was so horrible that I ended up being homeschooled for a while, before landing up in a school where the teacher was actually willing to support me.

Obviously the case of Liam Conejo Ramos is (probably) not as extreme as mine, but still… if the kid’s good at academic pursuits, for God’s sake why don’t you just let him be? Would you be saying the same thing if he was sporty or a great artist or something?

(Some people have a presumption that it’s always the parents who are pushing the kid to do more advanced stuff against their will. Yes, I unreservedly agree that’s bad. It’s precisely as bad as forcing them to stay at a lower level when they are willing and able to do much more.)

[Raphael]

Oh, I'm not in favor of forcing kids into one mold. My problem is with ranking them at too early an age by calling some of them stars and, at least by implication, others non-stars.

[bradrn]

Oh, I'm not in favor of forcing kids into one mold. My problem is with ranking them at too early an age by calling some of them stars and, at least by implication, others non-stars.

Unfortunately, if you try to treat everyone exactly the same way, no matter how good your intentions you are forcing them into one mold. The best we can do is to emphasise that an ability-based ranking does not mean that anyone is morally inferior or superior. I guess in this regard I do disagree with the wording in terms of ‘stars’.

[Raphael]

Oh, I'm not in favor of forcing kids into one mold. My problem is with ranking them at too early an age by calling some of them stars and, at least by implication, others non-stars.

Unfortunately, if you try to treat everyone exactly the same way, no matter how good your intentions you are forcing them into one mold. The best we can do is to emphasise that an ability-based ranking does not mean that anyone is morally inferior or superior. I guess in this regard I do disagree with the wording in terms of ‘stars’.

That's true if you make all kids do the same things. Letting different kids do different things without implying that some activities are more "star-like" than others is a different matter.

[alice]

Oh, I'm not in favor of forcing kids into one mold. My problem is with ranking them at too early an age by calling some of them stars and, at least by implication, others non-stars.

This happened to me around the ages of 7-9; our teacher actually organized our seating in the classroom based on how we did in tests, for example. This had the side-effect of turning at least one person into an arrogant conceited little shit, and I'll leave you to work out who it was.

[bradrn]

Oh, I'm not in favor of forcing kids into one mold. My problem is with ranking them at too early an age by calling some of them stars and, at least by implication, others non-stars.

This happened to me around the ages of 7-9; our teacher actually organized our seating in the classroom based on how we did in tests, for example. This had the side-effect of turning at least one person into an arrogant conceited little shit, and I'll leave you to work out who it was.

Now that’s a stupid way to run a classroom, yes.

[jcb]

So what do you think?

As I've said before, liberals (or "liberals") are fine with classism, as long as each class is the right proportion of male/female, white/black, straight/gay, etc.

[malloc]

Some terrible news on the horizon. Congress is very close to passing a law that would require extensive documentation, such as a passport, to vote. Instead of sounding like a doomer, I just want to ask how I would go about getting a passport in time for November so that I can still vote.

[Civil War Bugle]

Some terrible news on the horizon. Congress is very close to passing a law that would require extensive documentation, such as a passport, to vote. Instead of sounding like a doomer, I just want to ask how I would go about getting a passport in time for November so that I can still vote.

https://www.usa.gov/apply-adult-passport

This link contains the basic steps if you decide you want a passport. It’s been nearly twenty years since I originally got mine and a few years since I renewed it, so I don’t remember the exact amount of time the process actually took, but it was a few weeks of waiting for my forms to be processed.

[jcb]

Some terrible news on the horizon. Congress is very close to passing a law that would require extensive documentation, such as a passport, to vote. Instead of sounding like a doomer, I just want to ask how I would go about getting a passport in time for November so that I can still vote.

Don't you have your birth certificate?

[zompist]

I just want to ask how I would go about getting a passport in time for November so that I can still vote.

By applying for it.

(The bill has not passed the Senate and probably won't, as it can be filibustered. But getting a passport is a good idea.)

[Raphael]

Given that it cost fees to get a passport, wouldn't such a law directly violate the 24th Amendment? Yes, I know, the current corrupt apparatchik US Supreme Court would uphold it anyway, but I just want to note that for the record.

[bradrn]

Instead of sounding like a doomer, I just want to ask how I would go about getting a passport in time for November so that I can still vote.

I agree that such a law would be terrible, but I think it’s great you’re proactively looking into it before it becomes an issue for you.

[Richard W]

Given that it cost fees to get a passport, wouldn't such a law directly violate the 24th Amendment? Yes, I know, the current corrupt apparatchik US Supreme Court would uphold it anyway, but I just want to note that for the record.

A more serious issue is whether it must be issued even if requested for nefarious purposes, such as voting democrat.

[alice]

Given that it cost fees to get a passport, wouldn't such a law directly violate the 24th Amendment? Yes, I know, the current corrupt apparatchik US Supreme Court would uphold it anyway, but I just want to note that for the record.

A more serious issue is whether it must be issued even if requested for nefarious purposes, such as voting democrat.

Or for getting past the massed rows of ICE agents outside the polling places.

Seriously, though, aren't the sections of society most given to voting for Trump much the same as those least likely to travel outside the USA, and thus least likely to have passports?