United States Politics Thread 47

[Raphael]

It's kind of funny even though it's so sad.

CNN seems to be determined to demonstrate that once you go Full Horse Race Commentary, you never go back from Full Horse Race Commentary:

https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bs ... rfj5s2mk2d

“It’s a blowout… not even close… Pope Leo absolutely crushing Trump when it comes to how popular they are.”

"But what are the respective popularity levels of opening vs. closing the Strait of Hormuz? And will Robert F Kennedy junior or the disembodied spirit of Edward Jenner win the Kentucky Derby? We asked people whether they prefer their communion wafer with the real Body of Christ or a symbol for it. The answer may surprise you! Tune in later this evening for..."


OK, I made that last paragraph up. But you get the point.

[lëtzeshark]

Surely it depe"nds on what food we buy. Fresh produce seems to be unreasonably dear in the US. Are there reduced aisles where items are reduced to half price or even 10c when the expiry date is coming up? You get that more in the UK than in France from my experience.

It's not very common, at least in the grocery stores I often go to in the US, but they can be found, and there's also a lot of "shop the advertisement" in the US plus extreme couponing for some people. There are also some super-discount stores as well (Lidl and Aldi are spreading into more areas, and where I went to university in the US, we had a store called "Save-a-Lot"), and there's also the concept of the warehouse stores (Costco, Sam's Club, BJ's...) where you can buy in bulk, at least for the shelf-stable things, and the prices tend to be a bit more reasonable. You do need a car to shop around (unsurprising for a society like the US), but options can be found. Sometimes.

More: show

Fresh produce is, though, horrendously expensive compared to the other side of the Atlantic, but what struck me the last time I went to the US was in general how expensive things had become. With where my mother lives in the US, what I noticed on my last trip (note this is not at a warehouse or discount store):

• Indeed, fresh produce is at least the same price or double what I would pay in Luxembourg, even for some of the imported stuff (e.g., bananas).
• Meat is a bit tricky: chicken is sometimes cheaper in the US, but not always and not by a huge amount. Same for beef and pork to a degree, but the cuts of meat are different in Europe compared to the US, so it's hard to give a one-for-one comparison. (The packaging units are of course also different.)
• Snacks and soft drinks have shot up quite noticeably in price, so soft drinks are, absent a promotional deal, normally cheaper here.
• Bread and baked goods are also generally quite pricey. Baguettes are extortionately expensive in the US (because they're French, which automatically means high-class), but also your standard loaf of sandwich bread is about double what I'd pay here.
• Alcohol is cheaper in general here in Luxembourg, but North Carolina is a control state and Luxembourg is well-known for having super-low alcohol prices.
• Amusingly, if you can buy American products in the grocery stores here, the prices are about double what I'd pay in the US. However, if I try to buy European products in the US, the price is often at least triple what I'd pay here. (Part of why a lot of what I take back with me on trips to the US is food.)
• Other day-to-day things are generally quite a bit more: clothing, books, writing supplies... my brother's primary business is selling TCG cards, and postage has shot up quite a bit in the past five years, from about 60¢ for a domestic letter to closer to 80¢. Not counting the costs of the other things...

This is not meant to be a nostalgia post: things have also shot up quite a bit here in Europe as well. But maybe my visits to the US being as infrequent as they are means I only get a snapshot view of prices, and then I see that things have shot up in cost quite a bit...

[Raphael]

More: show

[*][...] Baguettes are extortionately expensive in the US (because they're French, which automatically means high-class),

Interesting strike against the whole "markets are rational and will calculate everything based on cold hard economic facts"-idea.

[jcb]

Sure but one must wonder why the old economy has been destroyed. The technology to make things affordably still exists and indeed automation has only advanced over the years. Logically this should translate to increasing abundance and thus affordability. Yet somehow we are faced instead with ever-soaring prices.

Developments in economic policy and the structure of the economy. In other words, looting the rest of us got easier and ever easier for the super-rich.

Apple Macintosh (1984): original price $2495, about $7500 in current money. 128K RAM. Compare the MacBook Neo at $599, with 8,000,000K RAM.

[...]

I'm 30 something years old, and I was thinking about this recently.

(1) Computers are the most obvious example of something that's gotten way better in the past 30 years. Thinking about living through the change between 1995 and 2005 (and to a lesser extent between 2005 and 2015) seems astounding now.

Of course, this has the downside of having brought on a level of surveillance of communications that the Stasi could have only dreamed of.

(2) Batteries are also way better. So much better, that some cars run off them entirely!

(3) Light bulbs are much more efficient now. I remember when all light bulbs were incandescent, so their *brightness* was measured in *watts*, a unit of *power*. It's why boxes of light bulbs nowdays still say "bright as a 60W bulb", to accommodate people that haven't learned lumens yet. ( https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/9a9220 ... 7788f.jpeg ).

(4) Sure, refrigerators and microwaves are cheaper, but what good is that if you can't afford a house to put them in?

(5) Furthermore, urban design has not improved. My city (and most others) is still stupidly building car-centric suburban sprawl with no end in sight.

(6) Cars are getting larger, making walking and biking near them more dangerous. The typical vehicle that somebody drove used to be a sedan, but now it's an SUV.

There's a lot to deplore about modern capitalism— but mostly because it no longer distributes productivity gains to everyone, but only to the 10%. Plus, you know, the idiocies of modern finance, such as throwing trillions of dollars at fads. But we should try to get our facts right and not contribute to false nostalgia.

(7) Add to that business models like "blitzscaling", whose goal is nakedly to create a monopoly (either by undercutting or buying out all the competition) and then make all the money back by jacking up the prices when people have no other choices.

This isn't a product, but a cultural change:

(8) Smoking indoors used to be much more common, both in restaurants and people's homes, to the point that smelling cigarette smoke makes me nostalgic, despite still being gross and unhealthy!

(9) Obesity has only gotten worse. Sure, Ozempic exists now, and seems to be one of the very few things that actually works in reducing obesity, but it's depressing that America can't find a solution besides drugs.
- https://www.statista.com/chart/33238/ad ... ed-states/

[jcb]

French is surprisingly good with pop culture-- movies and comics. When I was in college you still had to reckon with French novels, and the the deconstructionists (not my cup of thé, but inescapable). French scholarship is still top-notch.

The Francosphere does have Wakfu, but French anime is nowhere near as numerous and dominant as Japanese anime is.
- https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013 ... abbit-hole

[zompist]

(4) Sure, refrigerators and microwaves are cheaper, but what good is that if you can't afford a house to put them in?

I know it feels that way, but let's check the facts. In 1990 when I was 30, the homeownership rate in the US was 64%. Today it's... 65.7%.

Housing is definitely out of whack, but part of that is because both left and right hate building housing and make it as hard as possible to do so. There are countries which have more affordable housing, notably Japan. They do it by building more housing.

This also varies wildly by region. New York is said to be terrible; Chicago is much better. I just checked: you can buy a pretty nice house in Rockford IL for $135,000, which wouldn't buy a 2-bedroom condo where I live (just outside Chicago). We're renting now— we've had enough of condo associations— but the condo was more affordable than renting.

(5) Furthermore, urban design has not improved. My city (and most others) is still stupidly building car-centric suburban sprawl with no end in sight.

(6) Cars are getting larger, making walking and biking near them more dangerous. The typical vehicle that somebody drove used to be a sedan, but now it's an SUV.

Cars have always been bigger here. I visited Europe in the 1970s and was amazed to find that a Volkswagen Beetle, which looked small here, looked big in Europe. The whole suburban-sprawl model is expensive and bad for the planet.

I can't help pointing out that some of the problems you mention— too much food, overly large cars, sprawl— are problems of excess. Americans don't react well when told to eat better and buy small cars.

[jcb]

I can't help pointing out that some of the problems you mention— too much food, overly large cars, sprawl— are problems of excess. Americans don't react well when told to eat better and buy small cars.

I think it's a systemic problem, not a personal problem. Most people, American or not, will eat whatever amount of food you serve them, regardless of whether it's one serving or two, and can't control their feelings of lack of satiety after ingesting a bunch of ultra-processed foods.

SUVs are as cheap as they are because of a legal loophole that Obama and Biden left open.
- https://www.distilled.earth/p/the-looph ... in-america

Suburban sprawl could be reduced by changing zoning laws.

[Ares Land]

Oh, hi! It's been a while. Hope everyone's doing well

On the general decline in living standards -- I feel I could add a few points, with the huge caveats that I don't live and work in the US. I think we have kind of the same problem here in France, though with quite a few differences.

• I'm sure there are people out there nostalgic for the 50's, but as far as I can tell the 50s were pretty bad here -- a post world war wasteland with awful politics and bloody colonial wars. I think people have fonder memories of the 60s and 70s.
• Wages are lower. In IT I think the best you can do is about half average Silicon Valley salaries. Then again the cost of living is nowhere near Silicon Valley levels, and you don't have to think about healthcare or tuition as much.
• People here don't have access or use credit that much, or anyway nowhere near American levels, except for real estate and cars.

All that being kept in mind, there is a general feelings that boomers (defined as 'anyone 10 years older or more than the speaker') had the good life and that things are much tougher now.
It's not exactly true, but not completely wrong either.

I think a lot of the feelings come down to the economy isn't that well tailored to what people actually want. Smartphones and computers are a lot cheaper; housing is a lot more expensive. Which is kind of backwards, because people need houses to live in while smartphones are just, well, nice to have.

I know it feels that way, but let's check the facts. In 1990 when I was 30, the homeownership rate in the US was 64%. Today it's... 65.7%.

You'd probably find similar figures here. But we'd need to delve deeper and check at age of first acquisition, total prices, areas, distance. I think we'd find quite a bit of difference. People still buy their homes because of strong preference for homeownerships, but houses are smaller, more expensive, further away than people'd like.

Housing is definitely out of whack, but part of that is because both left and right hate building housing and make it as hard as possible to do so. There are countries which have more affordable housing, notably Japan. They do it by building more housing.

Here it's not clear where the problem is. People blame credit rates, renter-friendly laws, divorce and general moral degeneration. My hunch is that it comes down to wealth accumulation; the 5% or 1% that hold an increasing share of the wealth have to invest it somewhere, and real estate is a pretty good investment. Plus political indifference: politicians being generally older, wealthier, and better-connected, it's not clear they're really aware there is a problem at all.

Besides housing, there's clearly an issue of increased cost of living and stagnating (or decreasing, taking inflation into account) wages. It feels more recent - I feel it started immediately post-Covid (but I'm relatively privileged. Very likely things were getting bad before that.)

I'm sad to report cars are getting bigger here too (though not as much as in the US). A VW Beetle (the original one) is a small car now.

French is surprisingly good with pop culture-- movies and comics. When I was in college you still had to reckon with French novels, and the the deconstructionists (not my cup of thé, but inescapable). French scholarship is still top-notch.

The Francosphere does have Wakfu, but French anime is nowhere near as numerous and dominant as Japanese anime is.
- https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013 ... abbit-hole

We have a small but thriving manga and anime scene here; more generally there's a lot of good cultural production (and I'd extent that to Europe). It just doesn't export much. It's hard to break into the English-speaking market with translations; which is too bad I guess. You really miss out on a lot of good stuff.

More generally, in terms of culture (pop- and otherwise) France (and more generally Europe) does pretty well, ditto in terms of scholarship. (I think in some fields you can get away with citing only French works)
I wouldn't get bored if I decided to boycott all English-language productions (though that'd be silly!). American TV series are generally way better; though there are a couple of good European ones.
A point to note is that neither culture exists in a vacuum, and in fact neither exists independantly. The influence of Anglo-American culture is huge here of course, but it goes both ways. Americans probably don't watch foreign films much, or at all, but American filmmakers do.
A number of American directors are funded, at least in part, by French companies. These are mostly, of course, those who appeal to the French public more.
By the way, it's interesting that French people consume a lot of American cultural products but not the same ones Americans do. I think we're more aware of Truman Capote than of Harper Lee; few people have heard of Catch-22. (On the other hand, have you ever heard of Howard Buten?). The classic example is, or was, Woody Allen.
(Conversely, I'm surprised at the French authors Americans feel relevant. I don't think anybody -- among scholars, I mean- cares about Baudrillard and Derrida. The big names are Deleuze and Bourdieu.)

[jcb]

Cars have always been bigger here. I visited Europe in the 1970s and was amazed to find that a Volkswagen Beetle, which looked small here, looked big in Europe. The whole suburban-sprawl model is expensive and bad for the planet.

I have a hatchback, and have been told multiple times that it's "small", but it's only small if you compare it to all the SUVs and pickups that most people drive. It's plenty big enough for what I do 99% of the time.

I can't help pointing out that some of the problems you mention— too much food, overly large cars, sprawl— are problems of excess. Americans don't react well when told to eat better and buy small cars.

I've been told that I'm "skinny", but my BMI is 24, so I'm actually at the upper end of the healthy weight for my height, but, again, it's all relative to who you're comparing it to, in this case most people who have BMIs of 25-35.

You'd probably find similar figures here. But we'd need to delve deeper and check at age of first acquisition, total prices, areas, distance. I think we'd find quite a bit of difference. People still buy their homes because of strong preference for homeownerships, but houses are smaller, more expensive, further away than people'd like.

The problem of size is the opposite here. Newly built houses are unnecessarily expensive, because they have giant garages and yards, and too many bedrooms and bathrooms, even though couples generally don't have five kids anymore. (And they're built on the edge of town out of walking distance of anything useful.) I suspect this style of building maximizes profits for the banks that are building and selling them, despite poorly fulfilling the needs of the people that buy them.

[zompist]

I know it feels that way, but let's check the facts. In 1990 when I was 30, the homeownership rate in the US was 64%. Today it's... 65.7%.

You'd probably find similar figures here. But we'd need to delve deeper and check at age of first acquisition, total prices, areas, distance. I think we'd find quite a bit of difference. People still buy their homes because of strong preference for homeownerships, but houses are smaller, more expensive, further away than people'd like.

Housing is definitely out of whack, but part of that is because both left and right hate building housing and make it as hard as possible to do so. There are countries which have more affordable housing, notably Japan. They do it by building more housing.

Here it's not clear where the problem is. People blame credit rates, renter-friendly laws, divorce and general moral degeneration. My hunch is that it comes down to wealth accumulation; the 5% or 1% that hold an increasing share of the wealth have to invest it somewhere, and real estate is a pretty good investment. Plus political indifference: politicians being generally older, wealthier, and better-connected, it's not clear they're really aware there is a problem at all.

I hate to say it, but build more. Unfortunately people don't like that, or vote for that, because it means development and construction traffic and things changing, and people don't like developers. But then they pay for it in housing costs.

I looked up some recent figures: France is almost the same as the US in this area. Housing starts are about 3,970 units per million population here; 4,420 in France. Compare 6,050 in Japan, and that's down from 7,000 three years ago.

We have a small but thriving manga and anime scene here; more generally there's a lot of good cultural production (and I'd extent that to Europe). It just doesn't export much. It's hard to break into the English-speaking market with translations; which is too bad I guess. You really miss out on a lot of good stuff.

Which is why I read French. There's been a lot of attempts to get translations going, but I think BDs don't lend themselves to how Americans buy either comics or manga. The US market is still based on monthly comics, which means brand names people know, most of which are fifty to a hundred years old. There are a dozen new Batman/Superman/X-Men comics out every month, and if you get hooked, you can go back decades till you get sick of them. You can get almost as deep into One Piece (114 volumes!)

BDs are more like TV shows-- they're limited in numbers, they come out way more slowly, and when they're done 3/4 of the US readership vanishes because the name changed. US comics readers are less devoted to particular writers or artists than to characters.

Plus, I dunno, it takes time to build an audience to appreciate what's different in a culture's comics. Japan did it somehow; there is some unsung hero of distribution or sales-to-bookstores whose story needs to be told.

This is just based on what I know about US comics shops and comics fans. There are definitely fans of BDs, like me, and a few comics stores that will fill a couple shelves with them. But their big money is the guy who comes in weekly to pick up his reserved magazines and maybe look at what else is new. Nobody's tried very hard to sell that guy French comics.*

*Exception: Heavy Metal, which did pretty well, but couldn't outcompete a whole genre.

This is not BTW a defense of the US comics industry, which is incredibly nerdy and not a little malodorous, and is always in crisis. In some ways tho the output is better and more diverse than ever before, probably because manga opened minds to what comics could do.

Americans probably don't watch foreign films much, or at all, but American filmmakers do.

Yeah, very much so. I think a surprising number of US films are remakes of European or Japanese ones, too.

I expect it's true of comics too. That is, maybe the average fan doesn't know Moebius, but the artists and writers sure do.

few people have heard of Catch-22.

That one surprises me a little, because it feels close to French humor to me.

[Ares Land]

few people have heard of Catch-22.

That one surprises me a little, because it feels close to French humor to me.

I don't know how typical I am, but I didn't really get the humor. (In fact I couldn't finish the book.)

I hate to say it, but build more.

Oh, it's all right. At least it feels like there's a solution!
Looking at why we don't build enough, it looks like construction was hard hit by the general post-Covid economic malaise, so construction costs went way up. Though again I have a feeling the sector wasn't doing well before Covid either.

The thing is, the people who could do something about the problem (developers, elected officials) are generally in the wealth bracket that benefits from high prices.

[malloc]

Troubling legal news today: the Southern Poverty Law Center is facing an indictment that could lead to its dissolution and will certainly hinder its operations for the foreseeable future.

[jcb]

We have a small but thriving manga and anime scene here; more generally there's a lot of good cultural production (and I'd extent that to Europe). It just doesn't export much. It's hard to break into the English-speaking market with translations; which is too bad I guess. You really miss out on a lot of good stuff.

Thinking about my consumption of French (language) media, I've watched Wakfu (only the first two seasons), read some Asterix and Tintin, and have read The Little Prince, which isn't alot, but is more than your typical American.

Also, do French memes count?
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwiCLnlJeco

I hate to say it, but build more. Unfortunately people don't like that, or vote for that, because it means development and construction traffic and things changing, and people don't like developers. But then they pay for it in housing costs.

I'm all for building more!, but please, let's not build more car-dependent suburbs.

Also, can we build some high-speed rail while we're at it? This map is shameful:

[zompist]

Also, can we build some high-speed rail while we're at it? This map is shameful:

As I wrote on my blog:

In 2008 China and California both approved plans for high-speed rail systems of similar size, about 800 miles long: between Beijing and Shanghai, and between Los Angeles and San Francisco. China completed its line three years later. California is still working on its line— the first segment might be done by 2033.

FWIW it doesn't change much, but I think the map isn't quite accurate: the Acela service runs at HSR speeds... for a 40-mile stretch.

[malloc]

I'm all for building more!, but please, let's not build more car-dependent suburbs.

Quite. We made a grave mistake in turning over urban infrastructure to automobiles and forcing humans to the sidewalk. Someone here once observed that if you looked at Earth from space, you might conclude that cars rather than humans were the dominant species.

On more positive news, Virginia has approved an admittedly gerrymandered congressional map that could give Democrats four more seats in the House. Now granted, I consider the solution of Democrats gerrymandering blue states to counter Republican gerrymanders less than optimal and would prefer some non-partisan system for ensuring fair electoral districts. Nonetheless it's encouraging to see Democrats fighting back rather than retreating into calls for decorum and civility against a ruthless adversary.

[jcb]

I'm all for building more!, but please, let's not build more car-dependent suburbs.

Quite. We made a grave mistake in turning over urban infrastructure to automobiles and forcing humans to the sidewalk. Someone here once observed that if you looked at Earth from space, you might conclude that cars rather than humans were the dominant species.

Someone here? I think you mean Douglas Adams. That's why the protagonist of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" is named "Ford Prefect".

[malloc]

Unfortunately a judge just blocked the new congressional map for Virginia, making the whole vote pointless and giving the GOP quite an advantage in House seats. I must say, it baffles me that red states can just change their maps at will while blue states must pass changed maps with referenda and face court challenges. Where was this legal opposition when Texas changed its maps?

[Lērisama]

Unfortunately a judge just blocked the new congressional map for Virginia, making the whole vote pointless and giving the GOP quite an advantage in House seats. I must say, it baffles me that red states can just change their maps at will while blue states must pass changed maps with referenda and face court challenges. Where was this legal opposition when Texas changed its maps?

Didn't all the Democrats run away to deny them quorum? I definitely remember reading about that. And California succeeded in its gerrymandering, which roughly balances Texas. Don't worry about it too much, and just hope it puts an end to this whole irritating process¹.

¹ I get why everyone is doing it, but I strongly disapprove of the concept, and gerrymandering because of the result of a referendum to offset gerrymandering elsewhere is still gerrymandering, even if you think you have the moral high ground.

[malloc]

Didn't all the Democrats run away to deny them quorum? I definitely remember reading about that. And California succeeded in its gerrymandering, which roughly balances Texas. Don't worry about it too much, and just hope it puts an end to this whole irritating process¹.

No, they gave up and returned to Texas, which ultimately passed its gerrymander.

[Lērisama]

Didn't all the Democrats run away to deny them quorum? I definitely remember reading about that. And California succeeded in its gerrymandering, which roughly balances Texas. Don't worry about it too much, and just hope it puts an end to this whole irritating process¹.

No, they gave up and returned to Texas, which ultimately passed its gerrymander.

Eventually yes, but that's not passing without challenges.