Pronunciations you had to unlearn

[bbbosborne]

do people pronounce those with initial stress too ?

i don't, i still have second syllable stress with adessive and abessive.

[Linguoboy]

Spellcheck flagged infinitesmal and I realised I've been deleting the penultimate syllable all this time.

[Zaarin]

Spellcheck flagged infinitesmal and I realised I've been deleting the penultimate syllable all this time.

When I first heard the word (thanks, Star Trek!) I thought it was infant-tessimal. In my defense I was probably about 11, which may be the maximum age for unironically enjoying "The Dauphin."

[Raphael]

I just learned how "bass" is actually pronounced in English. I always thought it was either "bus" or "bess".

[Linguoboy]

I just learned how "bass" is actually pronounced in English. I always thought it was either "bus" or "bess".

When instead it's either bäss or behs!

Growing up, I used the /bæs/ pronunciation for all meanings of the word. Using /eː/ before a double consonant was extremely counterintuitive to me.

[Travis B.]

To me b/æ/ss is the fish (or water vegetation in the case of weed bass) whereas b/eɪ/ss is the set of instruments. And yes, it is counterintuitive.

[Pabappa]

I thought they were both /beis/ due to early childhood overcorrection but in 2nd grade another kid embarrassed me and I never made that mistake again.

[anteallach]

I just learned how "bass" is actually pronounced in English. I always thought it was either "bus" or "bess".

Why would it be "bus" or "bess"?

As others have said, the fish is TRAP, which is probably the expected pronunciation (except that in TRAP/BATH split accents it could be BATH, but I think it usually isn't) and the musical term is FACE, which is counterintuitive given the spelling.

[Salmoneus]

As others have said, the fish is TRAP, which is probably the expected pronunciation (except that in TRAP/BATH split accents it could be BATH, but I think it usually isn't)

It isn't, no. Nor is it in 'wrass'. I think TRAP is the default for -ss nouns, and increasingly so since some have shifted over (most young people no longer have the Mass/mass split), although most of the really prominent, basic ones are BATH (grass, class, pass).

[Raphael]

I just learned how "bass" is actually pronounced in English. I always thought it was either "bus" or "bess".

Why would it be "bus" or "bess"?

Because after more than 26 years of learning English, I still sometimes get a bit confused about the various possible pronunciations of <a> in that language.

[Linguoboy]

For years, I thought Schublade was an assimilated French borrowing like Barrikade or Schabloneand I pronounced it /ʃuˈblaːdə/. Then one day it finally dawned on me that it was a native compound of Schub "shove" and Lade "drawer; chest" and should be /ˈʃuːpˌlaːdə/

[Travis B.]

I just learned how "bass" is actually pronounced in English. I always thought it was either "bus" or "bess".

Why would it be "bus" or "bess"?

Because after more than 26 years of learning English, I still sometimes get a bit confused about the various possible pronunciations of <a> in that language.

I could see confusing b/æ/ss and b/ɛ/ss for a non-native speaker, were it not for that <a> is never /ɛ/ except in a limited set of words in some dialects, e.g. than or (the verb) can.

[Salmoneus]

Yes, while <a> can be confusing, fortunately the vowels of 'bus' and 'bess' aren't - the former is virtually always spelled 'u', and the latter is usually just 'e' (although there is a small but important set where it's spelled <ea>)

[Travis B.]

(although there is a small but important set where it's spelled <ea>)

Just to note (not for you, I assume you already know this), this is reflective of a set of words that underwent vowel shortening, commonly before non-sibilant alveolar or interdental obstruents, rather than undergoing the Great Vowel Shift as one would expect, resuilting in a small set of common words which are written as if they should have vowel-shifted long vowels when in fact they have unshifted (historically) short vowels.

[Ryusenshi]

Yes, while <a> can be confusing, fortunately the vowels of 'bus' and 'bess' aren't - the former is virtually always spelled 'u', and the latter is usually just 'e' (although there is a small but important set where it's spelled <ea>)

Uh, really??? Granted, the STRUT vowel is almost never spelled "a", but otherwise, its spelling is notoriously inconsistent: come, love, done, mother, rough, double, blood... and what and was for some people (especially in America).

Apparently, most people from Germany (and many other EFL learners for that matter) tend to use their /a/ vowel for English STRUT words, and then merge TRAP with DRESS. Jack Windsor Lewis calls this the bleck hendbeg problem. With this sort of system, bass (the fish) would indeed be pronounced "bess", or possibly "bus". Raphael, is that what you were thinking about?

I know a girl from Angola who similarly merges TRAP with DRESS. She also uses dental stops instead of fricatives. Once she told me she was going to the [ˈbɛtrum]: I though it was bedroom (what, in the middle of the day??) but she meant bathroom.

[Travis B.]

The matter with STRUT is that it is often written with <o> when adjacent to <m>, <n>, <i>, and <v> for historical orthographic reasons (because these letters along with <u> were commonly written just with short upward strokes, with no other lines connecting them). Futhermore, post-GVS [uː] on occasion underwent lacking/centralization to [ʊ], which afterwards then got unrounded and opened to STRUT. Another change was that in certain words in NAE, LOT (such as in <wa>) underwent unrounding and centralization to merge with STRUT.

[Ryusenshi]

The matter with STRUT is that it is often written with <o> when adjacent to <m>, <n>, <i>, and <v> for historical orthographic reasons (because these letters along with <u> were commonly written just with short upward strokes, with no other lines connecting them).

Yeah, yeah, I know the reason why STRUT is often o. This doesn't stop it from being a PITA for a foreign learner.

Related: wor- with the NURSE vowel, as in worm, work, word, worth, for the same reason (wur- would've been unreadable). Also wolf, woman who had this orthographic rule, then the FOOT/STRUT split.

Also, why is you pronounced /juː/? Is the spelling irregular? Or was the vowel unaffected by the GVS, perhaps because it was short at the time?

Another change was that in certain words in NAE, LOT (such as in <wa>) underwent unrounding and centralization to merge with STRUT.

I thought was and what were re-stressed weak forms, especially since STRUT is so close to schwa in many American accents.

[Linguoboy]

The spelling is etymological, so I assume this is the result of influence from unstressed forms. The OED agrees, at least partially:

Forms showing a palatal on-glide /j/ (compare Middle English you , etc.) are earliest attested for your pron. and adj., your adj. (already in Old English; compare geower, geowr- at your pron. and adj. Forms), and are apparently after ye pron. In early Middle English the initial palatal absorbed the first element of the diphthong /iu/ (the regular reflex of Old English ēo plus w ), resulting, after the shift of stress from a falling to a rising diphthong, in /juː/; a stage already reached (in some speech) by the early 13th cent. (compare the form ȝuw in the Ormulum). Middle English long ū thus produced was subject to regular diphthongization to /aʊ/ by the operation of the Great Vowel Shift, as is attested by some 16th- and 17th-cent. orthoepists, who also provide evidence that by the second half of the 17th cent. this pronunciation had come to be regarded as a vulgarism; it survives in a number of modern regional English varieties. The modern standard pronunciation derives partly from a Middle English unstressed variant with short ŭ , subsequently restressed and lengthened, and partly from a form which preserved the falling diphthong /iu/ and subsequently shared the development of other words with this sound (e.g. new adj., true adj.) in which the shift of stress to /juː/ did not take place until later; see further E. J. Dobson Eng. Pronunc. 1500–1700 (ed. 2, 1968) II. §§4, 178.

[jal]

Jack Windsor Lewis calls this the bleck hendbeg problem.

Interesting blog post, but with a silly conclusion. I can't say for sure for German, but for the Dutch (and I think it's about the same as German in this regard), the distinction between [æ] and [ɛ] is nigh impossible to perceive. They're all part of the Dutch phoneme /ɛ/; just like the STRUT vowel sounds to us like the Dutch /ʏ/ phoneme, etc. It has little to do with a wrongly taught pronunciation based on old-fashioned native pronunciation...


JAL

[Nortaneous]

Also, why is you pronounced /juː/? Is the spelling irregular? Or was the vowel unaffected by the GVS, perhaps because it was short at the time?

Either short or /iu/,

But a diphthong in this context probably would've been dispreferred anyway. How many of the dialects that preserve the original 2SG have a diphthong? In the British dialects, the nominative seems to be spelled something like "tha"; and the American Quakers regularized "thee" to the nominative (and sometimes to 3SG agreement). From Ben Franklin's autobiography:

I met a young Quaker man, whose countenance I lik'd, and, accosting him, requested he would tell me where a stranger could get lodging. We were then near the sign of the Three Mariners. "Here," says he, "is one place that entertains strangers, but it is not a reputable house; if thee wilt walk with me, I'll show thee a better."

The application was unfortunately [made] to perhaps the only man in the company who had the firmness not to be affected by the preacher. His answer was, "At any other time, Friend Hopkinson, I would lend to thee freely; but not now, for thee seems to be out of thy right senses."

Their captain prepar'd for defense; but told William Penn, and his company of Quakers, that he did not expect their assistance, and they might retire into the cabin, which they did, except James Logan,[82] who chose to stay upon deck, and was quarter'd to a gun. The suppos'd enemy prov'd a friend, so there was no fighting; but when the secretary went down to communicate the intelligence, William Penn rebuk'd him severely for staying upon deck, and undertaking to assist in defending the vessel, contrary to the principles of Friends, especially as it had not been required by the captain. This reproof, being before all the company, piqu'd the secretary, who answer'd, "I being thy servant, why did thee not order me to come down? But thee was willing enough that I should stay and help to fight the ship when thee thought there was danger."

There's one quote from a Quaker in the autobiography that uses "thou hast", but it's pretty long and also shows nominative "thee art", so that might be Franklin's mistake - he was clearly familiar with the standard usage of "thou", since in certain registers he used it himself.

At Newport we took in a number of passengers for New York, among which were two young women, companions, and a grave, sensible, matronlike Quaker woman, with her attendants. I had shown an obliging readiness to do her some little services, which impress'd her I suppose with a degree of good will toward me; therefore, when she saw a daily growing familiarity between me and the two young women, which they appear'd to encourage, she took me aside, and said, "Young man, I am concern'd for thee, as thou hast no friend with thee, and seems not to know much of the world, or of the snares youth is expos'd to; depend upon it, those are very bad women; I can see it in all their actions; and if thee art not upon thy guard, they will draw thee into some danger; they are strangers to thee, and I advise thee, in a friendly concern for thy welfare, to have no acquaintance with them." As I seem'd at first not to think so ill of them as she did, she mentioned some things she had observ'd and heard that had escap'd my notice, but now convinc'd me she was right. I thank'd her for her kind advice, and promis'd to follow it. When we arriv'd at New York, they told me where they liv'd, and invited me to come and see them; but I avoided it, and it was well I did; for the next day the captain miss'd a silver spoon and some other things, that had been taken out of his cabin, and, knowing that these were a couple of strumpets, he got a warrant to search their lodgings, found the stolen goods, and had the thieves punish'd. So, tho' we had escap'd a sunken rock, which we scrap'd upon in the passage, I thought this escape of rather more importance to me.

Also here: "Thee is supposed to be the object form of the word, and yet Quakers in my day have always used it as subject as well. Thus, “Thee is looking lovely today.” I never heard plain friends (as we call the theeing folk) use the word ‘thou’."