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[WeepingElf]

Also, some pretty horrible news coming out of Europe with over three thousand people dead from extreme heat over the past few weeks. Not sure where this should go, but I feel it needs acknowledgement.

Well, it is now obvious to most people that there is something wrong with the climate, and something has to be done about it. Every single freak weather event further weakens the positions of the climate change denialists and inactionists.

I may be overly cynical here, but until the ever-increasing profits of Very Large Corporations¹ are seriously threatened, nothing which will make a meaningful difference will actually happen.

¹ Principally in the energy and tech sectors, but I'm sure you can think of others.

I think you are overly cynical here. Renewable energies are a growth industry, and some large corporations invest in them because they are meanwhile less costly and thus more profitable than fossil fuels, let alone nuclear power. The corporate CEOs are not out to destroy the planet just because; all they seek is profit, and if doing good is profitable, they do. The main problem is that they have invested heavily in fossil fuels in the past, and want the facilities to return the investments and not to write them off prematurely.

[zompist]

I may be overly cynical here, but until the ever-increasing profits of Very Large Corporations¹ are seriously threatened, nothing which will make a meaningful difference will actually happen.

¹ Principally in the energy and tech sectors, but I'm sure you can think of others.

Would this help?



I know it seems hard to reach today, but the system we're looking at above, with a 53% top corporate tax rate (and during the same year, 1968, a 75% top personal tax rate) is not some namby-pamby European socialist nation, it's US capitalism. Under Richard Nixon.

Plutocracy ran the country before, and failed. It wasn't overthrown, the plutocrats did it to themselves.

As ever, there are lessons to be learned about how plutocracy clawed its way back. It's all the more important to also study the cases where democracy clawed its way back.

[malloc]

As ever, there are lessons to be learned about how plutocracy clawed its way back. It's all the more important to also study the cases where democracy clawed its way back.

True enough, although I worry that the plutocrats have many advantages today that they simply didn't have generations ago. The technology for propaganda has improved dramatically with everything from social media to large language models. Roosevelt didn't have to contend with millions of bots when promoting the New Deal after all.

[WeepingElf]

As ever, there are lessons to be learned about how plutocracy clawed its way back. It's all the more important to also study the cases where democracy clawed its way back.

True enough, although I worry that the plutocrats have many advantages today that they simply didn't have generations ago. The technology for propaganda has improved dramatically with everything from social media to large language models. Roosevelt didn't have to contend with millions of bots when promoting the New Deal after all.

I understand your concerns to some degree, but I feel that you are somewhat paranoid about LLMs. My main concern with them is about their bots bringing down web sites (as has happened several times here; you certainly did notice that), not so much about them spewing out right-wing propaganda. LLMs have no opinions at all, they just parrot what they are trained on. If you train an LLM on Mein Kampf and Goebbels's speeches, it will spew out Nazi propaganda. If you train it on Das Kapital and Soviet propaganda, it will fake an ardent Communist. Sure, the reactionaries are currently very powerful, with the MAGA-techbro alliance and all that, but they aren't invincible, and Trump is not a God-Emperor. While I have little hope about the midterms this November or about the 2028 presidential elections (when we will get rid of that buffoon because he can't run again, but after all, he is only a symptom and not the cause of what is going wrong in the US right now), the progressive opposition has been growing recently and will continue to grow, and the only way the Republicans could stay in power for decades would be setting up an outright dictatorship, and that the people won't allow.

[Raphael]

I may be overly cynical here, but until the ever-increasing profits of Very Large Corporations¹ are seriously threatened, nothing which will make a meaningful difference will actually happen.

¹ Principally in the energy and tech sectors, but I'm sure you can think of others.

Would this help?

Doesn't load.

[Man in Space]

I may be overly cynical here, but until the ever-increasing profits of Very Large Corporations¹ are seriously threatened, nothing which will make a meaningful difference will actually happen.

¹ Principally in the energy and tech sectors, but I'm sure you can think of others.

Would this help?

Doesn't load.

“Corporate income tax: History of top marginal tax rate for U.S. corporations”

12% in 1918
40% in 1942
53% in 1968
35% in 1993
21% in 2018

Data from Tax Policy Center, graph c/o George Petras/USA Today

[Raphael]

“Corporate income tax: History of top marginal tax rate for U.S. corporations”

12% in 1918
40% in 1942
53% in 1968
35% in 1993
21% in 2018

Data from Tax Policy Center, graph c/o George Petras/USA Today

Thank you!

[malloc]

I understand your concerns to some degree, but I feel that you are somewhat paranoid about LLMs. My main concern with them is about their bots bringing down web sites (as has happened several times here; you certainly did notice that), not so much about them spewing out right-wing propaganda. LLMs have no opinions at all, they just parrot what they are trained on. If you train an LLM on Mein Kampf and Goebbels's speeches, it will spew out Nazi propaganda. If you train it on Das Kapital and Soviet propaganda, it will fake an ardent Communist.

Sure although my point is less about LLMs specifically and more that technological innovations have automated the process of producing and distributing propaganda. Aside from large language models, we also have to contend with social media bubbles and algorithms leading people to far-right pipelines and such.

While I have little hope about the midterms this November or about the 2028 presidential elections (when we will get rid of that buffoon because he can't run again, but after all, he is only a symptom and not the cause of what is going wrong in the US right now), the progressive opposition has been growing recently and will continue to grow, and the only way the Republicans could stay in power for decades would be setting up an outright dictatorship, and that the people won't allow.

What could the people actually do to prevent dictatorship, though? If the Republicans win this year and in 2028, they will have considerable leeway to rebuild political institutions in ways that reinforce their power even further. Aside from the aforementioned advantages in propaganda, modern military technology makes insurrections way more difficult. What hope would we have against drones and tanks and so forth?

[Travis B.]

I understand your concerns to some degree, but I feel that you are somewhat paranoid about LLMs. My main concern with them is about their bots bringing down web sites (as has happened several times here; you certainly did notice that), not so much about them spewing out right-wing propaganda. LLMs have no opinions at all, they just parrot what they are trained on. If you train an LLM on Mein Kampf and Goebbels's speeches, it will spew out Nazi propaganda. If you train it on Das Kapital and Soviet propaganda, it will fake an ardent Communist.

Sure although my point is less about LLMs specifically and more that technological innovations have automated the process of producing and distributing propaganda. Aside from large language models, we also have to contend with social media bubbles and algorithms leading people to far-right pipelines and such.

Note, though, that the right-wing media in many ways is singing to the choir, as those who listen to it are very likely to be deeply right-wing to begin with. Also, despite its size and influence, it has failed to keep Trump from getting very unpopular.

While I have little hope about the midterms this November or about the 2028 presidential elections (when we will get rid of that buffoon because he can't run again, but after all, he is only a symptom and not the cause of what is going wrong in the US right now), the progressive opposition has been growing recently and will continue to grow, and the only way the Republicans could stay in power for decades would be setting up an outright dictatorship, and that the people won't allow.

What could the people actually do to prevent dictatorship, though? If the Republicans win this year and in 2028, they will have considerable leeway to rebuild political institutions in ways that reinforce their power even further. Aside from the aforementioned advantages in propaganda, modern military technology makes insurrections way more difficult. What hope would we have against drones and tanks and so forth?

You oversell the supposed "advantages in propaganda", and the superiority of modern military technology is only really relevant in an all-out civil war, and look at how well said superiority has recently served the US against a vastly inferior adversary...

[Raphael]

Would you mind moving US political discussions to the US politics thread?

[WeepingElf]

Would you mind moving US political discussions to the US politics thread?

I second this motion, and apologize for letting me drawn into this discussion.

[bradrn]

Would you mind moving US political discussions to the US politics thread?

I second this motion, and apologize for letting me drawn into this discussion.

In an attempt to redirect the discussion, a grammar note: that should be ‘letting myself be drawn into this discussion’.

[alice]

Regarding LLMS and "AI", here's an amusing article I found via the wonderful https://www.peppercarrot.com/:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202 ... obots-txt/

[Raphael]

OK, let's go sort of random, with a bit of a topical connection.

Since, among other things, it's also roughly 30 years since that movie hit theaters, can I bring up how one of the sillier aspects of the movie is that the aliens allow Smith's and Goldblum's characters into their ship in the first place? I mean, if the aliens' technology is at least as advanced as our own - and it clearly is - then each and every one of their vessels should have a transponder transmitting a unique identifier.

"Oh, there's a vessel incoming! Let's do routine checks... looks like the transponder identifies if as Unit 546029386739. Hm, according to the database, Unit 546029386739 was reported missing, presumed lost, 27 grand cycles ago on the planet which we're currently attacking. Why would it suddenly reappear now? Could it be that the locals have captured it and are now using it to try to infiltrate us? Nah, that's just crazy talk. Let them in!"

[WeepingElf]

Would you mind moving US political discussions to the US politics thread?

I second this motion, and apologize for letting me drawn into this discussion.

In an attempt to redirect the discussion, a grammar note: that should be ‘letting myself be drawn into this discussion’.

Of course - well, as you know, English is not my native language, so mistakes may happen

[bradrn]

I second this motion, and apologize for letting me drawn into this discussion.

In an attempt to redirect the discussion, a grammar note: that should be ‘letting myself be drawn into this discussion’.

Of course - well, as you know, English is not my native language, so mistakes may happen

Well, this is the first one I can recall seeing…

[WeepingElf]

In an attempt to redirect the discussion, a grammar note: that should be ‘letting myself be drawn into this discussion’.

Of course - well, as you know, English is not my native language, so mistakes may happen

Well, this is the first one I can recall seeing…

[Man in Space]

What is it with me and resurrecting dormant projects lately? My YouTube channel is doing well, but now I’m actually, at long last tackling my white whale of a sound change drop for the Index Diachronica 2.0¹. We had highs somewhere between 96 and 99 Freedom units this past week and high humidity, made me want to stay in.

I’ve done work on Twin Aster, Experiment World^2,3, the Index, the album...maybe I can get started on those script treatments if I can keep the rock from stopping...

----

1. To wit, Thorpe (1983), Ryūkyūan Language History.
2. Filia Azula’s collaborative conworld.
3. It wasn’t dormant, just to be clear.

[Raphael]

What is it with me and resurrecting dormant projects lately? My YouTube channel is doing well, but now I’m actually, at long last tackling my white whale of a sound change drop for the Index Diachronica 2.0¹. We had highs somewhere between 96 and 99 Freedom units this past week and high humidity, made me want to stay in.

I’ve done work on Twin Aster, Experiment World^2,3, the Index, the album...maybe I can get started on those script treatments if I can keep the rock from stopping...

----

1. To wit, Thorpe (1983), Ryūkyūan Language History.
2. Filia Azula’s collaborative conworld.
3. It wasn’t dormant, just to be clear.

Well, in any case, good luck!

[bradrn]

now I’m actually, at long last tackling my white whale of a sound change drop for the Index Diachronica 2.0

Ooh!