Japanese questions

Natural languages and linguistics
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Ketsuban
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:10 pm

Japanese questions

Post by Ketsuban »

I came across this in a video game about soccer/football.

メキシコ
Mexico
の
GEN
ディフェンス
defense
に
COM
悩む
struggle
デンマーク
Denmark
。
.
早い
quick
クロスボール
cross ball
から
from
チャンス
chance
を
ACC
掴み
seize
たい
VOL
ところ
place
だ
be
。
.


What's throwing me off is that structurally the first sentence looks like a bare noun phrase ("Denmark, who are struggling against Mexico's defense") but it's the main clause of the sentence ("Denmark are struggling against Mexico's defense"). What are the semantic considerations here? Why is it not デンマークはメキシコのディフェンスに悩む?
Moose-tache
Posts: 1793
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:12 am

Re: Japanese questions

Post by Moose-tache »

Strictly speaking, this makes a relative clause modifying Denmark. My guess is it's just a sentence fragment: "Denmark, who struggle with Mexico's defense." Ungrammatical in formal Japanese, but common enough in speech, like if it's imitating a sports caster. Another, equally plausible possibility is that they've just moved the subject to the end of the sentence for emphasis, which would not involve a subject marker. This feels pragmatically more likely to me, but it would depend on the surrounding context.

If I heard this sentence spoken, the prosody would make it obvious.
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Ketsuban
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:10 pm

Re: Japanese questions

Post by Ketsuban »

It is at least consistent in the game.

後半
second half
終了
end
直前
just before
に
COM
韓国
Korea
に
COM
PK
penalty
を
ACC
きめ
do
られ
PASS
た
PST
日本
Japan
。
.
アジア
Asia
最高
best
を
ACC
かけ
decide
た
PST
この
this
一戦
battle
。
.
がんばれ
go
日本
Japan
!!!!
!!!!


得意
signature
の
GEN
カウンター
counterattack
を
ACC
ふうじ
seal
られ
PASS
た
PST
ルーマニア
Romania
。
.
しかし
but
、
,
フリーキック
free kick
から
from
の
GEN
得点
goal
力
power
を
ACC
敵
enemy
に
COM
みせ
show
つけ
apply
る
NONPST
チャンス
chance
だ
be
。
.


スーパースター
superstar
フェルナンド
PN
へ
to
の
GEN
きびしい
relentless
チェック
mark
に
COM
なやむ
struggle
アルゼンチン
Argentina
。
.
しかし
but
、
,
試合
match
を
ACC
きめ
decide
る
NONPST
の
GEN
は
TOP
やはり
of course
フェルナンド
PN
の
GEN
キック
kick
だ
be
。
.
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Risla
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: Japanese questions

Post by Risla »

I have a friend who is a linguistics professor whose primary research is exactly on the tendency in Japanese towards bare nouns or copulas vs other types of predicates. She's pretty busy but I'll ask her for her explanation on this next time I talk to her, in a couple weeks.
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Risla
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:07 pm

Re: Japanese questions

Post by Risla »

Just giving an update so I don't totally let it slide...

My friend essentially gave me an hour and a half impromptu presentation on this, including pulling up her recent book to show me more examples (I definitely asked the right person!). I took a bunch of notes and need to summarize them for you.
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sasasha
Posts: 673
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:41 am
Location: Todmorden

Re: Japanese questions

Post by sasasha »

*Watching
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