Klingon and puns in vocabulary

[So Haleza Grise]

I've heard people at various times describe tlhIngan Hol as "not very interesting as a conlang" before, which I think is unfair. The grammar is OK in itself but the peculiar development history is probably as interesting as the language itself. It is a shame that it is full of unrealistically earth-friendly material (the word romuluSngan, twenty-four hour days, etc.) but that's not the fault of the language itself.

It was one of the first conlangs I was ever exposed to, so it's amazing it's taken me so long to work out that it is so full of puns. After a while you get to learn a little about the kind of person Okrand is (he likes classic Hollywood movies, for example).

Some of them are just really obvious, like DIron for bagpipes. But I came to realise that nearly every word (barring lip-read matches like HaDIbaH, or arbitrary coinages or transcriptions from the show) is a pun or reference of some kind. Some of them I can work out but some aren't so obvious. Take the numbers:

1: wa' - pretty clearly just taken from "one"
2: cha' - "cha cha"
3: wej - a wedge is shaped like a triangle (three sides)
4: loS - not sure on this one, but if the number system was originally ternary, could it be "lots"?
5: vagh - I can't work this one out. Maybe just a phonetic deformation of "five"
9: Hut - hut! hut! hut! - the whole nine yards. I know that American football is just one of many possible origins for that odd phrase.
10: maH - X marks the spot (I wonder if this was worked out at the same time as Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade came out).

I feel sure that there are other references in the other numbers but I can't get them.

Anyway, numbers are a hard part of vocabulary to coin from scratch in my opinion: even pronouns are easier. Unless you were to take the "realistic" method of coining meanings for them related to the process of counting that then become conventionalised over time, but I don't know if many conlangs do that.

[WeepingElf]

Not a numeral, but there is of course ghotI' '(Klingon analogue to) fish'.

[masako]

https://www.kli.org/wiki/Puns_in_the_Vo ... hIngan_Hol

[bbbosborne]

maybe pagh (0) --> pig? calling someone a pig is like saying they're worthless (worth nothing -> nothing -> zero).

[So Haleza Grise]

https://www.kli.org/wiki/Puns_in_the_Vo ... hIngan_Hol

There are a lot in here, but I feel a lot missed as well - wej for example. I wonder if they wait for Okrand to confirm something before they put it in there.

@bbosborne, off topic, but what does the image in your sig say?

[masako]

I wonder if they wait for Okrand to confirm something before they put it in there.

As I understand it, Okrand has participated in a few mailing lists and fan discussions where he has, in fact, confirmed many of those listed. When I met with him, however (we had dinner in DC with the directors/producers of the Conlanging Documentary), we did not specifically discuss puns, but he did say that some lemma had been linked to certain ideas by enthusiasts and that he had previously not realized any connections or correlations. For me though, some of the puns are a bit of a stretch and noted - mostly - in an attempt to add flavor to the Klingon experience.

Edit: http://klingonska.org/canon/ This is a decent page for the internal history of what many consider to be the canon of Klingon.

[bbbosborne]

@bbosborne, off topic, but what does the image in your sig say?

Here's a bigger version

[So Haleza Grise]

@bbosborne, off topic, but what does the image in your sig say?

Here's a bigger version

Haha brilliant, I enjoyed that.

I wonder if they wait for Okrand to confirm something before they put it in there.

As I understand it, Okrand has participated in a few mailing lists and fan discussions where he has, in fact, confirmed many of those listed. When I met with him, however (we had dinner in DC with the directors/producers of the Conlanging Documentary), we did not specifically discuss puns, but he did say that some lemma had been linked to certain ideas by enthusiasts and that he had previously not realized any connections or correlations. For me though, some of the puns are a bit of a stretch and noted - mostly - in an attempt to add flavor to the Klingon experience.

Edit: http://klingonska.org/canon/ This is a decent page for the internal history of what many consider to be the canon of Klingon.

You're lucky to have met Okrand. He has always struck me as personable and witty (or maybe just a bit less ... intense ... than the people who attain fluency in Klingon, I don't know). I thought he did a good job of presenting his grammar in TKD in a non-technical way that was nonetheless clear (I suppose the sacrifice was a lack of detail in many areas).

I do understand the need to import meaning to lexical items, for no other reason than to get a handle on all the unfamiliar words. You more or less have to come up with resemblances/reasons for the verb prefixes, otherwise they are totally impossible to memorise! I do thing having gho- and tI- on adjacent columns in his imperative prefix table was a deliberate (Shavian) joke though.

[masako]

@bbosborne, off topic, but what does the image in your sig say?

Here's a bigger version

The bottom left photo was created by a former member of the ZBB who became infamous for plagiarizing and being annoying beyond belief. Yes, I recognize her work.

[bbbosborne]

@bbosborne, off topic, but what does the image in your sig say?

Here's a bigger version

The bottom left photo was created by a former member of the ZBB who became infamous for plagiarizing and being annoying beyond belief. Yes, I recognize her work.

............shit
well I guess I better change it

[masako]

choquvtaH

[Risla]

choquvtaH

I would post a boingy, but I'm afraid I cannot find any.

[masako]

choquvtaH

I would post a boingy, but I'm afraid I cannot find any.

Ha'DIbaH!!

[Zaarin]

twenty-four hour days

Bajor's 26-hour day was one of the little details I appreciated about DS9. Shame that the Bajoran language was just gibberish.

[bbbosborne]

Bajor's 26-hour day was one of the little details I appreciated about DS9. Shame that the Bajoran language was just gibberish.

i've been drafting star trek languages occasionally based on what's "spoken" in the episodes. cardassian and dominionese are in the works

[masako]

twenty-four hour days

Bajor's 26-hour day was one of the little details I appreciated about DS9. Shame that the Bajoran language was just gibberish.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Bajoran_language There's enough here to act as a primer for anyone that wanted to attempt a reverse-engineer
...maybe.

[Zaarin]

Bajor's 26-hour day was one of the little details I appreciated about DS9. Shame that the Bajoran language was just gibberish.

i've been drafting star trek languages occasionally based on what's "spoken" in the episodes. cardassian and dominionese are in the works

Remember that passive voice transitive is only used to make requests! Do we actually hear any spoken Cardassian? I only recall personal/place names and names of specific items like ramok sauce, kanar, etc.

twenty-four hour days

Bajor's 26-hour day was one of the little details I appreciated about DS9. Shame that the Bajoran language was just gibberish.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Bajoran_language There's enough here to act as a primer for anyone that wanted to attempt a reverse-engineer
...maybe.

I always thought spoken Bajoran had a bit of a Semitic feel, but looking over the extent examples I'm thinking Indo-Aryan instead...

[bbbosborne]

Remember that passive voice transitive is only used to make requests! Do we actually hear any spoken Cardassian? I only recall personal/place names and names of specific items like ramok sauce, kanar, etc.

nah I used the memory beta wiki for cardassian, but the small tidbits of items/names that got spoken are useful for stress and spelling